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Re: the usual rubbish from Oracle marketing...

From: Noons <>
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 19:31:15 -0700
Message-ID: <>

DA Morgan wrote:

> And it matters in what significant way?

Oh let me see: we really should not point out inconsistencies and just let the circus go on? What, we should shut up because
we're told to? What, we should just let sheer communications incompetence
rule the way Oracle shows itself to the world? Of course, it ain't gonna happen.

> Whether Tom Kyte or Ted Farrell are Aces matters in what way to whom?

Not to me. That is not the point, so please re-read what I said and stop trying to steer it into an ad-homine attack, which it is only in your imagination.

> If this is important enough for you to generate angst I've no doubt
> you've been traumatized by Paris Hilton and Brittany Spears.

Absolutely! That would be the perfect "web 2" way of handling this. :-)
Unfortunately, I don't subscribe to that rubbish...

> > Meanwhile, those of us who perform the real advocacy
> > by trying to make the blessed thing work at the coalface
> > and get customers to not eject it for its buggy content,
> > for decades on end, get labeled as "cynical".
> I didn't realize you were the "real advocacy" for Oracle.

Once again: stop trying the ad-homine bullshit. I said "us" and I know EXACTLY who I am talking about. And it is not just me, and I couldn't care a triple fig about the Ace crap: it is meaningless and always has been, while it remains as it is, full of contradiction. I also challenge the notion that it is some sort of reward for advocacy, because it isn't.

> Must have
> missed something somewhere. <g>

Yeah, the previous 20 years of Oracle. And what happened in the online world before the internet was invented by Al Gore. You know, the world existed back then and so did Oracle users?

Somehow I don't recall you being active in Compuserve, when we had to fend off the silly attacks of the Ingres and Sybase rabid crowds?
Where were you when we were convincing folks to move away from Codasyl and into the SQL
and relational worlds?

Yeah, you missed a LOT. That's probably why you don't recall any advocacy older than the "web 2"...

Which by the way has yet to prove it can do anything better than blame relational databases for all the crap that's been going on in development with the j2ee and fusion rubbish. Would you like me to quote the blog from a fusion groupie that SPECIFICALLY recommends folks move
away from the database and its "restrictions"?

> and eBay seem to be using
> the product Ok.

Are they really? Which product are you on about now? Do they not use SQL Server and other databases as well? Stop name dropping, Daniel, I don't give a fig about the size of companies.

> So is AT&T, Boeing, every major bank in the world,
> almost every Fortune 500 company, etc.

Really? Let me see: you have been involved in ALL of them and what they do and you know they use exclusively Oracle and Fusion?
Be very careful with the reply here:
I said *ALL of them* and I said "Oracle
and Fusion"...

> If they can live with it what
> envelope pushing is going on in Oz that justifies this
>level of complaining.

The complaining is against the marketing and its deranged direction, rather than the product. But you totally missed the point in your haste to "cover up".

> > That's one way of dealing with it. :-)
> > The other of course is to belt them on the head
> > at every opportunity...
> And so far the results demonstrate you're successful?

Matter of fact, they do. The feedback has been quite open here and in ma ny other polaces and supportive of my points of view.

And if you took the blinkers off for long enough to listen to the world around you instead of the marketing dictum, you'd have noticed that I am not by any means the only person complaining about this state of affairs.

It might even down on you that the blog where ACE problems were pointed out first is NOT mine and I have NO say whatsoever in its contents. Did that little detail escape you or you now tring to find a convenient

> You know how to contact Mark Townsend directly. If there are specific
> issues raise them with him.

I'll raise them whichever way I feel I should and there is no way you or anyone else
can dictate to me how I should do so.

I've tried before - long before Mark - and got nowhere other than getting derogatory comments and covert phone calls to my employers
as well as calls to hiring companies.

So now they get it in public.
And no, I am NOT going to contact Mark or anyone else in Oracle NSW, enough of that diversion. Done with them.

But a few lost major customers might actually hit home and make the US side listen for once: When was the last time that Oracle NSW landed a big account? When was the last time that Oracle NSW landed a major one against
their major competition here, SQL Server?

Ah yes, let me see: it's because of my comments they can't win against M$?

Sure. Keep on dreaming, the awakening is going to be darn rude... Received on Mon Sep 10 2007 - 21:31:15 CDT

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