Re: Oracle 10g Server on Windows XP Pro

"Ian Smith" <ian.smith_at_irascian.com> wrote in message news:de616ff6.0405260911.18452e1c_at_posting.google.com...
> "Howard J. Rogers" <hjr_at_dizwell.com> wrote in message
news:<40b43600$0$8989$afc38c87_at_news.optusnet.com.au>...
> > "Ian Smith" <ian.smith_at_irascian.com> wrote in message
> > news:de616ff6.0405252155.330addc0_at_posting.google.com...
> > > "Howard J. Rogers" <hjr_at_dizwell.com> wrote in message
> > news:<40b3d86b$0$3035$afc38c87_at_news.optusnet.com.au>...
>
> OK. Let's start again....
>
> >
> > Not sure what all the exclamation marks are trying to say.
>
> Oh I think you are! ;-)
>
> I was hoping someone would have a "known problem, quick fix" answer.
> OK, so I'm incredibly naive, bite me!
>
> This problem looked to me initially to be pretty straightforward (I'm
> not the only one at work having the same problem - our DBA is
> struggling with it as I type). As I saw it the problem was/is easy to
> reproduce: Take an XP Pro system. Install Oracle Database. Watch it
> work. Reboot. Marvel at how it's broken.
>
> If I've learnt anything in 20+ years in IT (OK, so maybe I've learnt
> very little) it's taught me that detailing every last bit of
> information on a first posting means that (a) your posting is so long
> people run away because it looks so complicated and (b) it's a waste
> of time anyway there's often a "Yeah. I know what that is. Everyone
> hits that on first install" solution that can be given straight off
> the bat of describing just the basic symptoms (which I felt was what I
> did!).
>
> So the facts are these:
>
> It's a laptop with 1GB memory running XP Pro SP1. The uninstall of
> Oracle 9i was done following the process documented here:
> http://www.cryer.co.uk/brian/oracle/howto_uninstall_oracle8i.htm

That link produces a 'page cannot be found' error message. Which is not a particularly good thing to do so swiftly after having declared 'let's start again' and 'the facts are these'.

But even just reading the link, why would you think that to un-install 9i you would follow the instructions on a page addressed as 'howto uninstall oracle8i.htm'?

> I was running the PC as a workgroup configuration. The first install
> was away from my home network. The second install was connected to my
> home network. The network connectivity or lack of it doesn't seem to
> make any difference.

It will do.

> The uninstall of Oracle 10g 10.0.1 was done following section 6.3 of
> their install guide. I couldn't follow all the steps because it has
> you uninstall Oracle using the Universal Installer and then tells you
> to manually uninstall other bits by running SqlPlus - uhm the
> uninstaller just deleted SqlPlus.exe. Doh! Is it me, or has nobody
> ever tested this (I'm sensing a theme here).

So am I.

> Another individual installing on a clean machine has exactly the same
> problem. Everything works fine until a reboot is performed. Maybe my
> incompetence is rubbing off on him?

No-one was saying you are incompetent, though it's beginning to feel that way. But the links you give in posts don't work, you follow uninstallation instructions for one version when uninstalling another, you make assumptions about network connectivity not making a difference, you uninstall 10g but don't (or can't) follow all the instructions to completion... yes, I do sense a certain pattern of cavalier-ness here.

(In particular, if you install onto a laptop not connected to the network, uninstall poorly, and then re-install with it now connected to the network, you cannot make the claim that it 'doesn't seem to make any difference' whether you are connected to the network or not. All you can say is that the first botched non-network installation screwed the machine up royally; the uninstall probably didn't clean it up very well because not all steps were followed; and the re-installation is thus a house of sand on rather shoddy foundations).

> Ah, I think you're saying we agree on this.
>
> > I can only say again, a basic installation isn't!
>
> What's your definition of "a basic installation". I would say one that
> goes with all the defaults. I had the problem going with all the
> defaults (an ORCL database).

Er, where does it say in the installation instructions that one of the defaults is not to have network connectivity?

A basic installation is what happens when you take a clean Windows machine that is part of a workgroup or a domain, insert CD, and start clicking 'Next'. And that is precisely what I've done repeatedly, without trouble or hassle. And it is precisely what you didn't do.

> Well I got around to creating a database instance. The install process
> advised me to (I don't think it lets you NOT create a database
> instance actually)

Er, of course it does. The very *first* screen the installer pops up has a little check box on it labelled "Create Starter Database (additional 720MB). When you uncheck it, you don't get a database created as part of the installation.

Easy, no? All it requires is that you read the screens one is so anxious to click through.

[snip]

> >
> > You will also find things run a lot smoother when you install onto a
clean
> > Windows box. ORACLE_SID is a registry setting, and it can get rather
> > confused when 10g finds itself being installed onto box previously used
for
> > a 9i database, because the registry can get messy over time.
>
> A colleague installing onto a clean box has the same "failure after
> reboot" problem. A "clean machine" is not a luxury I can afford at the
> moment.

Would this colleague be any more careful about typing html links, actually reading installation instructions, reading the screens the installer displays as you? Unless your colleague is a clone of you, using a clone of your laptop, and doing things precisely the way you've done it, anecdotes about 'a colleague has exactly the same problem' are meaningless, frankly.

Everyone can afford a clean Windows install. If you can't afford a clean *physical* install, then download the trial edition of VMware and install into that. Your virtual machine will run very nicely in 512MB of your 1GB RAM, is utterly disposable, and you can practice getting the installation right as often as you want until you feel ready to try on the real machine again.

And before re-trying the installation on the physical machine, try and clean it up as much as possible. Which means, spend a happy half hour trawling through regedit manually removing any reference to Oracle or appropriate "ora" entries. Make sure you take *care* when you do that, and are *accurate*. And reboot when you've finished.

>
> I uninstalled 9i using instructions at the site
> http://www.cryer.co.uk/brian/windows/howto_nt_das.htm

See, I have no idea what you are on about now, because you've already explained how you uninstalled 9i, and this wasn't the link you suggested back then. Do you ever actually proof your posts before you click 'Send'?

> I uninstalled 10g using Oracle's own instructions (section 6.3 of the
> install guide). This uses the Universal Installer to uninstall the
> database then has you manually deleting registry entries etc. As part
> of the "manual" uninstall it advises you to run SqlPlus to uninstall
> an ASM instance.

Why would you even *want* an ASM instance on a laptop? Do you know what ASM is?

And is your laptop replete with half a dozen raw volumes such that using ASM would be of much use?

>Except of course if you've run the Universal
> Installer to do the uninstall as it tells you SQL Plus isn't there any
> more to let you do this.

You will find that you uninstall the ASM instance (which you do not need) *first*.

>I'd make some tart comment about quality and
> testing but would hate to be accused of giving opinion instead of
> facts again!

Actually, I did have a look at that. I think 6.3.3.1 might usefully be moved to the head of the 6.3.1 section, for example. Apart from that, however, there is nothing very obviously wrong about that section of the notes.

> The Oracle_SID error is something I got when trying to run a DOS
> command I found mentioned in another problem report that hinted more
> information might be available. There are no errors indicating this
> error as part of just trying to get the basic database working after a
> reboot. A colleague installing on a clean machine has the same
> problems (not sure of his exact configuration other than that it's
> running XP Pro SP1) so ORACLE_SID is something I need to read up on
> when I've got the basic database up and running and want to run that
> other tool.
>
> > The fundamental problem here, though, is that you *still* haven't
offered
> > any real information *at all* about your system. Is it part of a
network? Is
> > there a network card? What other software is on it. Is it at home? Is it
at
> > work? Is there a domain? What IP address are you using? Is there a
firewall?
> > How much RAM? How much disk space?
>
> Strewth. Shall I just post my hard disk contents as a binary? ;-) I
> mean, do you know how much software I have installed on this machine!
> All of which has installed first time and worked as expected :-P

Irrelevant, Ian, and I can see that this is going nowhere. You have installed, if I remember correctly, such wonders as Visio and SQL Server. All nice little programs that are Windows-specific and come with Windows-specific installation routines. Oracle uses a Java installer, because it's cross-platform capable, and therefore is not perhaps the smoothest example of a Windows installation you will ever see. Things which might be ignored by Visio or Office might cause hiccups for Oracle. That's all.

If you think that knowing whether you are on a network, what other software you are running that may impact on the ability to install new software, or how much memory or hard disk space you have is intrusive, then we'll just stop right here.

> OK, so I'm being a bit flippant and mea culpa with regards to
> supplying more information, but your initial response appeared to be
> ignoring the main problem and focussing on the business of Windows
> passwords.

OK, let me be blunt then. I was focussing on the Windows passwords because what you wrote was completely untrue, and it was therefore evident that you don't actually have much of a clue about the O/S you are using, which rather made me suspect that we weren't dealing with brightest penny in the purse as far as Oracle was concerned either. And as continuing evidence for that proposition...

You describe Windows XP Pro as a single user O/S You include the wrong link to a Google post you want me to read You include the right link to a Google post you want me to read *in a completely new thread*
You include the wrong link to a set of uninstallation instructions You include another link to a different set of uninstallation instructions You claim in two different places to have used *both* sets of uninstallation instructions
You install 10g first onto a machine without a network You don't uninstall cleanly
You expect a second-installation-with-a-network on top of the first partially-removed one to work without problems You consider a clean Windows installation a 'luxury' You consider telling someone who's trying to help you what hardware platform he's actually dealing with intrusive.
You can't read the very first screen of the installation with its offer to do a software-only install

The litany continues a little later in the post where you claim...

You are using a 'standalone workgroup PC', which is sloppy definition at best and totally meaningless at worst
You are using a DHCP server to assign your IP address -and when you did your first Oracle 10g install 'away from the network', what IP address did this DHCP server assign you at that time?

I give up, frankly. I will accept you at your word that you have 20+ years in the IT industry, though it is abundantly clear that your experience of Windows is not as, shall we say, 'rich'. That of course doesn't make you either stupid or incompetent. But it does mean that you have blundered through a 10g installation not knowing quite what you are doing, or bothering about doing it on appropriate (network-connected) hardware and software. You expect it to be a walk in the park, because things like Visio, Office and SQL Server all are. Your comment below says it all really: "I don't want to be an Oracle DBA. SQL Server has spoilt me". That's an attitude problem that doesn't impress me in the slightest.

Your astonishing inability to write concise, *precise*, descriptions of your problem also means I'm bailing out now. Maybe someone else will help.

Meantime, I can only make one serious suggestion: stick with SQL Server.

HJR
>It's not an excuse but just so you know the second reply
> was sent out at 6am UK time as I was rushing to make sure I didn't
> miss a train in response to your posting which had appeared overnight
> (I missed the train by the way which is a bummer!)
>
> Truth is it's over a year since I installed Windows and I've never had
> to enter a password until Oracle suddenly decided that me being signed
> in as an Administrator and then supplying SYSDEV credentials wasn't
> good enough. I find that odd, but that's my problem I guess. I still
> don't know why it doesn't like the Administrator password that my
> notes from a year ago say I selected as the admin password).
>
> Anyway, the facts are these:
>
> It's a laptop with 1GB memory running XP Pro SP1 and all critical
> patches, Pentium 4 processor 1GHz.
>
> I was running the PC as a standalone workgroup PC. The first install
> was away from my home network. The second install I was connected to
> my home network which consists of other standalone workgroup boxes.
> The network connectivity or lack of it doesn't seem to make any
> difference.
>
> There is no firewall when not on the network. I turned the firewall
> (ZoneAlarm Pro) off when I was on the network doing the Oracle
> install.
>
> My IP address is 192.168.0.1 It is allocated by a DHCP server built
> into my router for access to the Internet. It has not changed in the
> last three months and keeps renewing itself when I connect to the
> network, but this should have no bearing on the "standalone" install.
>
> Another individual installing on a clean machine has exactly the same
> problem. Everything works fine until a reboot is performed. Maybe my
> incompetence is rubbing off on him?
>
> The log trace information is in the URL (the one I didn't post
> correctly) and appears to indicate a network problem. I don't think
> home/work or part of a network ar relevant in this case. My IP address
> is 192.168.0.1 - is this of interest? I can't think why! There is no
> firewall. It's a standalone laptop. None of this information has
> changed from when Oracle 10g worked (immediately after install) vs
> when it doesn't work (after the first reboot).
>
> >
> > Also, the link to 'an identical problem' you mentioned actually points
> > merely to your original post, so doesn't throw much light on the
subject.
>
> Yup. I screwed up. What can I say? It's hard trying to cut and paste
> errors and URLs and log records from several different places.
>
> > So, please don't take this the wrong way, but if you take a deep breath
and
> > actually tell us some actual facts, without making slip-ups like that
one,
> > or the password/single-user one, we may be able to help.
>
> Mea culpa. The password/single-user one was to my mind irrelevant to
> the point I was making: I'm logged in as an admin, I've supplied
> SYSDBA credentials, why is it asking for something even XP logon
> doesn't ask me for directly? (that's not a question I want you to
> answer by the way).
>
> > But if all we get
> > is descriptive and reference errors, and opinion about what an
installation
> > should or should not do, or how difficult it should or should not be, we
> > can't help much.
>
> OK. But, if you'll forgive me for saying, you seem to be giving a lot
> of "opinion" yourself.
>
> > If you are new to Oracle, make friends with http://tahiti.oracle.com,
and at
> > least read the concepts guide if you haven't already done so. You
*cannot*
> > be an Oracle DBA if you don't know what a SID is, what a network service
> > name is, what ORACLE_SID is doing for you, and why all three are subtley
> > different from each other. And much else besides.
>
> Thanks for the link. I don't want to be an Oracle DBA. I don't pretend
> to be one. SQL Server has spoilt me. I know what a SID is. I provided
> it at install time. I know roughly what services are running but when
> a "Help" screen explains a network service id as "eg NY_FINANCE" that
> doesn't help me one bit. The Oracle documentation list would easily
> take up the next two months of my life if I read it all. Heck, even
> the "Fundamentals" guide for App Developers clocks in at over 1000
> pages. Guess I've been really spoilt by SQL Server over the years :-(
>
> > I, and many others here, are willing to help you out as much as we can,
but
> > we need a little more information (well, a lot more, actually) and much
less
> > 'froth'.
>
> Thank you for your feedback and time. Let me know specifically what
> further information you'd like.
>
> Cheers,
> Ian
Received on Wed May 26 2004 - 17:29:48 CDT