Re: SPAM DB has been released

From: Mark C. Stock <mcstockX_at_Xenquery>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:27:29 -0500
Message-ID: <85ydnZmZits41aPdRVn_iw@comcast.com>

"Galen Boyer" <galenboyer_at_hotpop.com> wrote in message news:ur7whfyts.fsf_at_standardandpoors.com...
| On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, damorgan_at_x.washington.edu wrote:
| > Galen Boyer wrote:
| >
| >> On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, damorgan_at_x.washington.edu wrote:
| >>
| >>>All SPAM is bad spam. I don't care if you are giving it away
| >>>for free. I don't care if you personally show up, install it,
| >>>configure it train on it, and then give me a check for $50: It
| >>>is still spam.
| >> I'm on the fence on this one. What is different from what
| >> this guy posted and what Jonathan Lewis posts every month?
| >
| > I will gladly answer that one. Jonathan posts in response to
| > posts by other people asking for help solving a problem or
| > requesting clarification.
| >
| > Not once has he just posted marketing in and of itself.
|
| Every single month Jonathan posts
|
| "FAQ - Etiquette - and how to get an answer". This points to his
| website. In your definitions given, Jonathan Lewis is spamming
| this group.
|
| > Not once has he referred anyone to his company as the solution
| > to a problem. Not once has he said "come take my class for the
| > answer."
|
| The OP is getting berated and never did any of this either.
|
| > Jonathan may use a line or two more than I and others do to
| > indicate what he does and who he is but he isn't posting
| > purely, or I suspect even incidentally, in the hope of make a
| > sale or driving someone to his web site so he can sell them
| > something.
|
| What would be so wrong about that? Do you honestly think that
| Tom Kyte answers completely without a motive? He keeps giving
| such great answers that you are almost compelled to buy his book.
| Wouldn't surprise me one bit to find out that he has this in mind
| when he helps folks freely on this group. I certainly bought
| Jonathan's book because of the fantastic postings I read on this
| newsgroup. What is wrong with that? I would say, nothing, but,
| you should have a problem with it because of the "hidden" agenda.
|
| > A free product or give-away to get people to come to your
| > for-profit site is marketing at is most basic level. "Come on
| > down to our used car dealership and we will give you a toaster"
| > is marketing. So is "Come to our web site and download SPAM-DB
| > 1.6 for free." In both cases the motive is transparent.
|
| Its not clear you understand the open-source community.
|
| > The DB2 and Informix groups have their rules and they should be
| > respected. The Oracle group's rules should be too. And if
| > spammers aren't made to pay a price for what they do it just
| > encourages them to spam more and for others to do so too. You
| > really don't want me, and every other consultant, posting our
| > advertising here. Really!
|
| How can you group an open-source author in the same vein as a
| for-profit software effort?
| --
| Galen Boyer

i've been enjoying this thread almost as much as the funny papers...

i finally looked up the original PEAR DB announcement ... even though it was non-profit-ware, it was definitely a marketing announcement and, yeah, the poster was obviously looking to direct folks to his website

i don't think simple announcements and product recommendations are necessarily inappropriate, but the poster really needs to be somewhat aware of 'community standards', and is certainly more respected if he/she has a history of contributing to the core reason for the group's existence

jonathan's posts do have a rather healthy element of marketing in their signature, but he doesn't become the object of weeks-long tirades because

1) he's known and respected
2) his ads come after polite and useful and on-the-point answers
3) he has (other than the 15+ lines of advertisements) probably the best

netiquette of any participant in these newsgroups -- he never berates any poster, doesn't waste time telling people they are wasting his time, doesn't indulge in spam-patrol, and is clever enough not to respond to discussions like this one (i claim a somewhat lower level of cleverness on that score)

;-{ mcs Received on Thu Feb 26 2004 - 13:27:29 CST