Re: oracle 01Z0-001 exam

Daniel Morgan wrote:

> Hans Forbrich wrote:
> 
>> Sad to see you repeating this drivel again, Daniel.
> 
> 
> May be sad and may be repeated but it isn't drivel. Look at the number
> of times you agree with it.
> 

We agree on the facts, not the conclusion. I find this akin to the "'guns kill people' vs 'people kill people'" debate.

>> But what questions are people supposed to ask?
>
>
> What are the test questions? Open an OCP prep book and it asks you a
> question such as:
>
> "You want to grant user TIMOTHY the ability to update data in the EMP
> table as well as the ability to administer that access for others. Which
> of the following commands would you issue?"
> (from Oracle OCP Introduction to Oracle 9i: SQL Exam Guide 1Z0-007)
>

And without an exam, there would be no impetus to ask the questions until it's too late. Nor woukd there be any place to look for potential questions.

Reminds me of a quote attributed to the story of Helen Keller 'A dictionary is the most useless of books. Can't find out how to spell a word unless you know how to spell it.'

> Well you could do as the OP requested, find a booklet copy of the
> answers and memorize it.

That is the negative of OCP (and any other certification) - that someone can get certified by rote memorization. Which is basically the same dilema as any other exam-based curriculum. I guess that puts it on par with any high school/college curriculum, yet some still find value in those diplomas.

>
> Or you could get off your ...., fire up Oracle, create a table
> named EMP. Try the four possibilities and actually learn something.

Which many self-respecting students will actually do. Especially those who are seriously trying to upgrade their skills and not just get another piece of paper.

Although some people do not acknowledge that.

>
> The OCP is valueless in my opinion ... because those that pass have
> proven one and only one capability ... the ability to memorize.

If that were true, I'd agree. However, I note you ignore the other things - like encouraging (forcing) people to look at documentation (of any sort) and forcing employers to give employees time & tools to study.

I've seen it once too often that an employer punts a developer up to DBA with no training and no time to learn. Or makes someone the Oracle DBA just be cause she is familiar with SQL Server. If the employee can challenge that with 'OK, but pay for my OCP', he's got half a chance of actually becoming a DBA.

The value of any certification centers around the curriculum. It's a great tool to identify what is important. Unfortunately our society does allow people to cheat themselves and get away with it.

For me as an employer the value of OCP is "they have heard and should have an understanding of these words; they should be able to find the appropriate documentation and understand it; they have the ability to complete something".

Verification of that value in an individual is part of the function of an interview, and many interviewers fail miserably. That, however, is not the fault of OCP.

>
> This is just my opinion so lets not start a religious war over it.
>

Not planning on it. I've agreed with you on too many things in the past to blatantly discount your opinion. I just feel some people are missing, or deliberately ignoring, the positive aspects that I see.

Aside from that, I still don't see viable alternatives for the masses that need it.

My conclusion is "OCP isn't bad. The people who misuse, who I believe those people are in the minority it, are bad.".

Thus endeth my diatribe - I leave the last comments to you.

/Hans Received on Thu Feb 26 2004 - 09:07:15 CST