Re: Outsourcing developer to India and China - As an Oracle developer I am miffed

Noons wrote:

> "Howard J. Rogers" <hjr_at_dizwell.com> wrote in message
> news:3f837318$0$24715$afc38c87_at_news.optusnet.com.au...
>
>> As it happens, it turns out they were right. Their jobs were destroyed.
>> But is Manchester any the less for it today? It's a fine
>> Victorian-architecure city that does a thriving trade on tourism,
>> including industrial architecture tourism, and (apparently) is a
>> acandidate for the Gay capital of Europe. Who would have imagined that?!
>
> :D
> Are you suggesting that DBAs should turn gay
> and engage in tourism activities? I can think
> of better ways to use my skills...

I'm saying that people adapt, and society (and individuals) don't come to a horrible grinding halt, just because of change.

>
>
>> Point is, this thread is silly, because the forces at work are bigger
>> than you or I can control, and at the end of it all, we'll survive. Just
>> like they did in Manchester.
>
> Hmmmmm, I don't believe it's the same at all. There is one
> big difference: Manchester was primarily an industrial city.
> With IT, we're talking services. The two things are not exactly
> the same and they do not necessarily obey the same economic rules.

That'll be news to economists, then.

Of course they obey the same economic rules. Supply and demand is supply and demand whether you're talking widgets or lectures or help desking. And comparative advantage is also something that very definitely applies (and in which the US, UK and Australia, to name but three, have an *enormous* advantage over China, if not so clearly over India: language. We all speak English. Well, most of us do).

>
>
>> Read Adam Smith on the law of comparative advantage.
>
> In his time society was mostly secular and traditional.

Not entirely sure what 'secular' has to do with it, but I would hardly call the 18th century a 'secular' age. And we don't discount lots of other stuff that was first enunciated in the 18th century: Einstein didn't abolish Newton, but rather enhanced and refined him.

>None of his
> ideas have been proven to work *in the long term* in an advanced,
> services-oriented society.

That's a mite unfair, since we haven't had advanced, services-oriented societies for a long term yet. But no matter: the law of comparative advantage says nothing about what the advantage is over or about. It dictates nothing explicit about whether one should refer to manufactures or services.

>We're playing with fire by claiming his
> principles apply to everything and every social activity.

I didn't.

> That is not what he wrote about and has not been proven anywhere.

And what you're saying he wrote about is not what the law of comparative advantage is about, either.

Economic theory hasn't stopped since Adam Smith, and CA is as useful in economics today as it was when he first roughed it out. And it has been elaborated and developed over many years.

>> This isn't new, and it isn't the sky falling in either.
>
> I'm quite sure those out of a job and supporting
> a family agree entirely with you...
>

Missing the point, I think. No-one is suggesting that finding yourself redundant due to a new outsourcing deal is pleasant, or even desirable. Point is, do you just wring your hands and moan, or take to the streets of Seattle to battle that which you can't win? Or do you get off your bottom and find some new skill, some new niche, in which you can excell?

Remember the post which started this thread posited the idea of a boycott of companies that outsource. King Canute or what?

Regards
HJR

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