Re: Im stuck in a black hole!

Hi Nuno,

I think your comment on the training of DBAs and the generation of "useless" DBAs is a bit harsh ! I'm the first to admit that the training provided is not perfect but I also know many, many DBAs who have gone through the training programs and have developed and matured into excellent, professional DBAs. The training they received was an vital "initial" step in the learning process, an initial step that provided them with a solid foundation from which they were able to grow professionally with that other important ingredient, experience.

I also know the costs organisations pay by not investing in training, by using false economy techniques of so-called on the job learning, reading of manuals, hunting through the web, etc. Again, although not perfect, the training programs provided by Oracle (and others) is an excellent introduction to the complicated concepts and processes involved in being an effective Oracle DBA. And that is all much of the training is aimed to be, a start. It's the subsequent experiences of the individual, of applying techniques that work and fail, by making mistakes and learning from them, by learning from peers from a position of "knowledge" that ultimately makes the "competent" DBA.

And don't confuse the training with OCP. In my opinion, becoming an OCP means you know how to answer a few questions. It's fundamentally flawed in what it's attempting to achieve, no question. But it doesn't necessarily negate the effectiveness of the training people attend in order to achieve OCP status.

Your suggestion that the available training is of no use or relevance to aspiring Oracle DBAs is wrong. There are plenty of quality DBAs out there that prove it.

One last point. In case anyone thinks I'm just saying all this because I work for Oracle, please note that I left Oracle several weeks ago (and I'm in fact enjoying a new liberated existence with a month of World Cup soccer action but one sleep away).

Regards

Richard

"Nuno Souto" <nsouto_at_optushome.com.au.nospam> wrote in message news:3cf23975$0$15145$afc38c87_at_news.optusnet.com.au...
> In article <3cf132ed_1_at_mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com>, you said (and
> I quote):
>
> Reply to both Paul and Sy:
>
> > > DBAs should most definitely NOT design databases. That has been a
common
> > > and global problem of RDBMSs since they started. Database Design is a
> > > SEPARATE discipline from administration of databases. Unfortunately,
> > > there are still too many people in responsible positions in this
industry
> > > who don't even have a CLUE as to what the difference is.
> > >
> > Nuno,
> >
> > I entirely agree with sentences 3 and 4. However, I'm not so sure about
> > sentence 1.
>
> I agree. However, I still maintain: the skill set to be a DBA has got
> nothing to do with database design or application design skill sets.
>
> This does NOT mean that one cannot be both. In fact, most experienced
> DBAs out there who value their professionalism and want to know as much
> as possible about databases end up getting involved in the discipline of
> design. If nothing else so that they can better understand and
> communicate where the real problems lie. And that is fine.
>
> However, the fact is that almost no DBA training out there provides a
> base for application and database design. It's a different discipline,
> that needs different training. The end result is that most DBAs end up
> learning design as self-study. That can be good and bad. Some never get
> the basics sorted out. Others go on to become exclusively designers, as
> that is where they can make the most difference.
>
> Yet a lot of managers expect the DBA to be some sort of all knowing
> genius who can wave a magical wand, activate the _go_fast parameter and
> solve all problems in one single pass. The old "silver bullet" syndrome.
>
> Still with us, in many forms. That is of course deranged, as we all
> know. And even useless: as 9iR2 and later releases of Oracle rollout,
> the need for performance tuning of the database itself will become less
> and less relevant. What will still be needed is good db and app design.
>
> > Some DBAs are skilled in both disciplines, and are lucky enough to be
> > involved in design decisions from the outset.
>
> Exactly. Some. There are always exceptions. But the vast majority of
> basic-trained or just-started DBAs have no clue whatsoever about design
> issues and yet are immediately asked to produce output in this arena.
> The results can be disastrous.
>
> Not their fault, IMO. But a problem area that must be looked at. The
> current training of DBAs bears no resemblance whatsoever to the real DBA
> job out there and how it is evolving. We incur the risk of creating an
> entire "generation" of absolutely "useless" DBAs.
>
> --
> Cheers
> Nuno Souto
> nsouto_at_optushome.com.au.nospam
Received on Thu May 30 2002 - 07:47:03 CDT