Re: SQLDMO for Oracle

"Jim Kennedy" <jim dot scuba dot kennedy at gee male dot com> wrote in message news:ob-dnUhdgKhde3neRVn-uw_at_comcast.com...
>
> "Mark C. Stock" <mcstockX_at_Xenquery .com> wrote in message
> news:OKOdnSh5Y6K7fXneRVn-oA_at_comcast.com...
>>
>> "Frank van Bortel" <frank.van.bortel_at_gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:ds2hs3$ogm$1_at_news3.zwoll1.ov.home.nl...
>> > Jim Smith wrote:
>> >
>> >> Tell me this. Which is more likely to cause problems?
>> >>
>> >> 1 Giving users access to Enterprise Manager
>> >> 2 Giving users access to an application which lets them carry out
>> >> limited dba activities under conditions and control determined by the
>> >> programmer.
>> >
>> > Either.
>> >
>> > Usually, neither users nor programmers know about backups,
>> > restores, block corruption, etc.
>> >
>> > You're not allowed to drive a car without a license, either.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Regards,
>> > Frank van Bortel
>> >
>> > Top-posting is one way to shut me up...
>>
>> this thread is getting just plain silly. users don't know about backups?
>> programmers don't know about backups? c'mon!
>>
>> ++ mcs
>>
>>
>
> No, user's don't know about backups. How many users will do regular
> backups
> and TEST the backup and recovery. Answer: a very small percentage.(even
> with fully documented procedures etc. even if it is medical data) I
> worked
> for a company that sold a system with a database and complete instructions
> to do backups etc. (medical data, patient data) It was rare that people
> would get backups correct (usually didn't follow the directions) and they
> rarely tested to see if it worked. One customer had backup tapes going
> back
> 3 months and all the backups were bad. (they ignored error messages on the
> screens). It really bites when you lose data.
>
> What do we need programmers for? Most programming can be done with just
> drag and drop and connect dots GUI tools.
>

real programmers use machine code ;-)

> Answer: You need appropriate professionals in their field. When you
> substitute tools for expertise you have people using hammers to open paint
> cans. (yes, tools in an experts hands can multiply their efficiency, but
> tools in the hands of the untrained can cause pain and damage)
>
> Jim
>
>

keywords: untrained, didn't follow directions. sounds like a lot of dba's i've met ;-)

there is a vast difference between identifying risks and making sweeping declarations. some people never change their oil, either. or furnace filters. some people are diligent and capable. some end-users are diligent and capable. even some programmers. nah, maybe not.

in the old days 'trained professionals' keyed data, not end-users. then technology advanced and better programmers made better programs so that they could hand appropriate tasks off to the end-users.

oracle's direction with XE (which will affect some larger installations) is to simplify database management, even with rman. it appears that's what the OP is intending, for a specific application and a specific audience. been there, done that, it's part of the job.

if a 'trained professional' is smart enough to figure out what tasks need to be done on a regular basis, and smart enough to apply apropriate standards and checks in doing so, why isn't the same 'trained professional' smart enough to automate or encapsulate that which can be, rather than require Dr. Science to perform the redundant?

'nuf said, i've got to go change my furnance filter. after i get licensed.

++ mcs Received on Sat Feb 04 2006 - 12:21:25 CST