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Re: Howard Rogers

From: DA Morgan <>
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 21:40:04 -0800
Message-ID: <1099633135.481682@yasure>

Comments in-line

Howard J. Rogers wrote:

> "DA Morgan" <> wrote in message
> news:1099465815.13430_at_yasure...

>>I have no doubt you didn't know Jonathan would do it and given what both
>>you and Jonathan have contributed to the community I am delighted rather
>>than offended that he did.
>>That said ... your timeline for a 10g book is fine with me. It is just
>>that at this point in time I have no-one asking me about 9i

> Don't you have people asking about RAC? Or Data Guard? Or RMAN?

Sure do. But always from the standpoint of 8i to 10g or 8i to 10g. I can only think of a single company in this region actively planning to go from 8i to 9i and that because they are upgrading Oracle Financials.

> How much difference is there between the 10g and the 9i implementation of
> RAC, just to take one example?

Enough that Mike Ault's book went from softcover to hardcover. ;-)

But to answer your question essentially none of substance.

> I know there are licensing differences, which is fair enough. And things
> might now actually work that should have worked in theory in 9i. But
> fundamentally, it's the same.


> Point is, Jonathan Lewis' Practical Oracle 8i is still vital reading for 9i
> and 10g database users. Same goes here. There's lots of SQL experiments to
> try on, for example, Workspace Manager... all of which works unchanged in
> 10g.

I agree. Which is why I have already recommended your book to all of my students. And if you'll send me a promo I'll post it on the PSOUG web site.

> Defensively, perhaps,

Nonsense. If I was in your shoes I'd do the same. Well I'd probably put on another pair of socks so my feet didn't slide around. But I'd hardly call what you've written defensive.

> I'm suggesting that the arrival of a new version
> doesn't suddenly mean the features that appeared in the previous version
> cease to have relevance. Oh, and bear in mind this is a 9i *Release 2* new
> features. When does that version of Oracle expire?

True. But the "interest" is focused forward and 9i is a 4 year old product.

> Maybe I should have called it "experimenting with advanced Oracle"? But I
> hope to high Heaven I don't have to start having focus groups on what titles
> to give to my scribblings!

Actually I think the name would have been better as it probably more accurately describes the contents just as I'm sure Jonathan would have sold far more books if the cover didn't contain "8i".

>>so a 9i book
>>isn't of much value except as a recommendation to my students whose
>>companies may well be moving to 9i or who may have 9i but not really
>>know it.

> Well, I'm not going to argue that too much. That's fine. But that means you
> never recommend Practical Oracle 8i? That's a shame... it's one of the best
> books I know for seeing the *practicalities* behind implementing anything in
> Oracle. And what version was Tom using when he wrote 'Expert One on One'?
> And I know for a fact you still recommend that one!!

Hardly. I consider Jonathan's book a gem. But I've read it. I'm not going to buy a second copy unless someone steals the one in my office. But if Jonathan had come out with a 9i book and a 10g book and and 11e book and a 12c book, or whatever ... I'd have each and every one.

>>Right now I have a voracious appetite to fill a bookshelf with
>>10g books. Now if I just had the time to read them cover-to-cover.

> Understood... I just wonder what possible quality such a bookshelf could
> have right now?!

It keep, publishers, and authors making money.

>>Anyway ... Thanks Howard and thanks Jonathan.

> Likewise. I'm not having a go at you (this time!). I'm just saying that I
> couldn't start 10g without knowing what has gone on in 9i. Just as I only
> made sense of half of 9i because I'd seen what was new in 8i.
> But anyway. I'm not trying to promote anything or defend anything. I wanted
> to write it because it made things clearer for me. Whether it helps anyone
> else is up for them to decide.
> Regards
If you won't I will ... Howard's written work to date has been well worth the price of admission.
Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington
(replace 'x' with 'u' to respond)
Received on Thu Nov 04 2004 - 23:40:04 CST

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