Re: Fifty years' experience in C programming; 20 in VB...

Chris Weiss wrote:

> It is true that many people are very effective without degrees in computer
> science, but these people tend to be in fields closely related to math or
> computer science, such as physics.
>
> Everyone reading this list can probably find anecdotal exceptions where
> someone with a liberal arts degree or no degree at all has turned out to be
> an outstanding programmer, dba or other techie. However, these people
> invariably have large gaps in their backgrounds unless they have spent an
> incredible amount of time engaged in self-study. No CS people tend to be
> weakest when it comes to optimization and performance analysis.
>
> I have heard CS students whine about the seeming lack of connection between
> industry job skills and things like complexity analysis, algorithms, etc.
> However, the people who seem to have the firmest grasp of these fundamentals
> also tend to come up with the best solutions to tough problems. In my
> experience, the further up the ladder you go in the problems and systems you
> work on, the more the fundamentals seem to come into play. Yes, knowing
> about the traveling salesman problem, the difference between O(n^2) and
> Ln(n), and what is meant by a minimum weight spanning tree does matter.
>
> I won't belabor the point of education, but I can't help but bring up an
> example. I had a manager about six years ago who took the dev team to task
> for the defect rate of our software. The developers brought up the problem
> of shifting requirements, and the manager brought up the problem of
> inadequate white box testing, and both were right. However, the manager
> thought he was *more* right, when he said , "I don't understand why you
> can't produce bug free software." I then informed him that debugging an
> arbitrary program in the general case is a provably impossible task. Of
> course, he accused me of being less than truthful, so I gave him a five
> minute lecture about the halting problem, and he never again uttered the
> phrase, "and I want to see the final product with *zero* defects." Instead,
> he made the reasonable assertion, "and I want all of you find as many bugs
> as you can before the customer sees the product." The hours I spent on
> diagonalization proofs regarding primitive recursive problems finally paid
> off. People without technical degrees or without any computer science
> background typically have no understanding of some very important
> theoretical problems.
>
> In relation to databases, many query optimization problems are NP-complete,
> meaning no one knows anything better than exponential algorithms to solve
> these problems. If you understand this principle, it makes you much more
> tolerant of issues related to the optimizer. Oracle's optimizer certainly
> does have bugs, but I would rather see a pretty good optimizer that is right
> most of the time then have one that takes exponential time to find the best
> query plan.
>
> A degree in CS is not a necessary condition for being a solid techie, but it
> does make it more likely.
>
> --
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Chris Weiss
> mailto:chris_at_hpdbe.com
> www.hpdbe.com
> High Performance Database Engineering
> Available for long and short term contracts
>
> "Neil Truby" <neil.truby_at_ardenta.com> wrote in message
> news:dyzA8.28903$7R.37878_at_NewsReader...
> > Another drawback of recruitment ads, particularly for some reason US ones,
> > is the requirement for a computer science degree. No other discipline
> will
> > do. I think this is quite short-sighted: one of the best techies I ever
> met
> > was a history graduate, and I myself am a technical colossus but have a
> > degree in theoretical physics.
> >
> >
> > "Daniel Morgan" <dmorgan_at_exesolutions.com> wrote in message
> > news:3CD2A981.F880942B_at_exesolutions.com...
> > > aztek wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi there,
> > > >
> > > > I completely agree with you on job adverts asking for ridiculous
> amounts
> > of
> > > > 'expertise'! I've been studying various programming languages and of
> > course
> > > > the other essential theory ingredients for 3 years, got diploma, doing
> > > > degree and can't even get an interview - and yes, my marks are
> > excellent.
> > > > Here in Australia, not only do employers / head hunters list what
> seems
> > like
> > > > an impossible number of skills from both networking and programming
> > areas,
> > > > but in addition, a junior seems to be considered someone with 2-3
> years
> > > > experience!!! IMPOSSIBLE!!!
> > > >
> > > > Well, that's all I had to say. Good luck to the original poster and
> to
> > > > everyone in my situation!
> > > >
> > > > Rachel
> > > >
> > > > "Kyralessa" <ryan_lundy_at_spamless_hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:s8jA8.240$7r7.120058891_at_newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
> > > > > "Daniel Morgan" <dmorgan_at_exesolutions.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:3CD18D9D.25533570_at_exesolutions.com...
> > > > > > Developer wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'm looking for a contract job in one of areas of my experience:
> > > > > > > [snip]
> > > > > > > Mail: art_of_proramming_at_seznam.cz
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Detailed CV upon request.
> > > > > > > Working languages: English, German, Czech.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Based on the e-mail address noted above, I'd say at least one of
> those
> > > > > languages needs a bit of work!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > [snip]
> > > > > >
> > > > > > No one is competent in as many things as you have listed. I'm not
> > > > > saying that
> > > > > > you don't know them to some extent. But in the current marketplace
> > > > > people look
> > > > > > for experts, not generalists.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you want to be successful I would urge you to decide what it is
> > you
> > > > > want to
> > > > > > do and apply for each position with a resume that reflects your
> > > > > experience in
> > > > > > that area and that area alone. When I see a resume that looks like
> a
> > > > > to-do list
> > > > > > I just toss it aside and so do most recruiters.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Daniel Morgan
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > So why, Daniel, do so many companies post such enormous laundry
> lists
> > of
> > > > > skills on their websites for any one position? The impression I get
> > > > > from most job postings I've looked at is that companies ARE looking
> > for
> > > > > someone who's mastered more than is humanly possible: Five to seven
> > > > > years experience in at least fifteen of some twenty different
> acronyms
> > > > > listed. Maybe if companies didn't advertise their jobs this way and
> > > > > were more honest about what essential _core_ skills were required
> for
> > > > > each job, job-seekers wouldn't feel the need to make resumes like
> > this.
> > > > >
> > >
> > > Your posting reminded me of a phone call I got from a recruiter looking
> > for
> > > someone with expertise in migrating Oracle 8 to Oracle 11i.
> > >
> > > It is still good for a laugh ... hopefully at the expense of HR
> > departments
> > > (something Scott Adams does frequently in the Dilbert cartoon strip).
> > >
> > > Daniel Morgan
> > >
> >
> >

Amen!

Daniel Morgan Received on Fri May 03 2002 - 14:27:56 CDT