Re: Does'nt the certification process help ?

That is a DBA course. There are virtually NO Entry Level DBA jobs. Well I saw one on comp.databases.oracle.marketplace last week in New Hampshire. Pay is lousy, but if you can get to NH take it and quit in 2 years. search the usenets at dejanews for entry level oracle jobs and see all the people looking for entry level dba jobs. Also do a search on yahoo and see the same thing. These jobs just dont exist. You almost always have to start as a developer first. People who started as a dba have probably been doing this atleast 4-5 years. The market has changed. You can ask them when the last time was they hired an entry level dba....

You need an Oracle Developer course. Covers SQL, PL/SQL, Oracle Forms, Oracle Reports. Plus basic DBA and data modelling.

Dont know what the economy will be like then... keep in mind, there are VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY few jobs for people without experience who do not have Computer Science degrees and I live in one of the biggest tech markets in the world. The job market for entry level people is dead. BTW, in the US absolutely have to have a 4 year college degree to get in. Yes there are alot of people who read this board who dont have those degrees and some of them answer alot of my questions, however, they have been in the business for a while. Dont know what its like in Canada though, but Id assume its the same. Our tech markets are pretty similiar. Only difference is you get more money done here.

Be prepared to move. Also, keep in mind that the US is not bringing in that many foreign workers anymore.. even from Canada. Looks like the the defense department is only going to hire US citizens soon... this will really drive down the demand for foreign Oracle workers in the US. There are a ton that do DOD work in the Washington DC area. Dont know whether they will get layed off, but I know the DOD is only hiring US citizens now.

Make sure its an Oracle Developer job...there are virtually no entry level dba jobs. Nearly all DBAs are developers or some other kind of IT for a few years first. BTW, there is an entry level Oracle job advertised on oracle.marketplace from last week in New Hampshire. Pays only $25k, but you could quit... in 2 years and get a better job. Dont know if you need papers to enter the US from Canada.

"Paul" <pauln_at_netcom.ca> wrote in message news:dkei8.2671$a04.14185_at_tor-nn1.netcom.ca...
>
> "Ryan Gaffuri" <rkg100_at_erols.com> wrote in message
> news:a6boha$qov$1_at_bob.news.rcn.net...
> > The short term Oracle training is a scam. I live in Northern Virginia
and
> > the market is flooded with people coming out of these expensive
> classes(some
> > cost upwards of $8,000). There really arent jobs available for people
who
> > only have a few months of training. Especially in a slow economy. The
> people
> > who get jobs in the US are US Citizens with security clearances or they
> have
> > other experience that is leveragable. Training companies will tell you
> that
> > you can leverage nursing skills, etc... Its BS.
> >
> > If you have other programmign experience, your good. If you are a CPA
your
> > pretty good. There is a tool called Oracle Financials. Alot of demand
for
> > CPAs with Oracle skills. Other than that its VERY tight. I would say
that
> > 80-90% of the people who take training classes who do not have any of
the
> > above skills do not get jobs. If not higher.
> >
> > To test this simply send out your current resume and include a paragraph
> > about Oracle training you got. You will get calls from recruiters who
cant
> > read resumes, but you probably wont get far. Maybe, you will get lucky,
> but
> > 9 out of 10 wont.
> >
> > Certification without experience helps a little bit, but what really
helps
> > is a computer science degree. The problem with hiring people right out
of
> > class is the following..
> >
> > 1. Most classes are not very good
> > 2. Most people who take the classes dont do much. You have to do ALOT of
> > work on the side when your just learning. 90% dont do nearly enough. So
> how
> > do you tell who is ready?
> > 3. People switch jobs on a dime in this business once you get experience
> so
> > why spend money training you if your just gonna quit?
> > 4. Your not really much cheaper. LEts say they can get you for $25k less
> > than someone with 2 years experience right? Well you are going to need
> ALOT
> > more help from people making $150-200k than someone with a little
> > experience... that is a high cost.
> >
> > I wont say dont do it. I did it and got a job... but I am in a very
> > exclusive minority. BTW, stay away from any class that has the word boot
> > camp in it. Total waste of money if your just learning. You need
something
> > that is about 2 nights a week for 3-4 months atleast.
>
> Thanks Ryan,
>
> The course I am looking at is from a local community college and it is two
> nights a week for
> a period of 26 weeks and a total of 290 hrs.
>
> Database creation 72 hrs.
> Database administration 72 hrs.
> Performance tuning workshop 72 hrs
> Network administration and backup and recovery 84 hrs.
> Expected homework time is stated as 8 -12 hrs a
> week. Cost of $ 3952.00 CDN, which is what about $2000.00 U.S. which
> includes student kits from Oracle.
>
> What do you think ?
>
> Regards Paul.
>
>
>
>
Received on Fri Mar 08 2002 - 19:38:20 CST