Re: No to SQL? Anti-database movement gains steam

From: Robyn <>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 23:55:05 -0400
Message-ID: <>

Because the ADHD generation is drawn to computing and we're easily distracted by shiny new toys.

Civil engineers remember that people die when they fail. Our consumers just watch the flash ads or surf porn while they wait for the screen to render. A few brain cells may die, but who's counting?

and btw, I strongly agree with Cary's comment. Poor foundations have been the source of every performance issue I've dealt with in the past several years.

(sorry if I sound cynical tonight .. been dealing with too many "No to SQL" types this week)

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 11:28 PM, Toon Koppelaars <> wrote:

> Goulet, Richard wrote:
> It's simply a matter of people who want to forget history and repeat the
>> mistakes of the past.
> Yes, so true.
> I always wonder why this keeps on happening in our profession.
> And not, lets say, in civil engineering.
> On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Goulet, Richard <
>> wrote:
>> Well, well, this dark horse has risen yet again. There were many
>> similar items like this over the years. B-tree libraries that allowed one to
>> imbed a database into any application. HP Turbo-Image that did a super
>> b-tree setup. Worked very fast, but was a pain in that uncommitted data was
>> visible every where immediately, row locking made it a real problem for
>> anyone else, reliability was an issue as well, and don't even talk about
>> changing the database structure as that took a lot of downtime.
>> The ideas that they presented & yes I've been listening to the
>> presentation they made are OLD HAT and simply the desires of a web/java
>> developer to want to control their own destiny. Problem is that once that
>> person dies, gets layed off, or even fired your stuck with a non-compliant
>> application and database that no one understands or knows how to maintain.
>> I guess some would call it job justification, by subversive action in my
>> mind. Then, of course comes the idea of data sharing. These apps will not
>> be able to do so without bridging software that surely isn't going to be
>> available without the original creator. OH, yes, there is always the
>> problem of when one of those "commodity" servers decides to crash and burn.
>> If you believe that the guy/gal who built this nightmare is going to fix it
>> your severely mistaken. It's wonderful how they can come up with
>> justification for what they want to do until it goes production and all hell
>> breaks loose at which time they know nothing about it.
>> I'm also rather puzzled by their comparison between their nosql
>> alternatives and MySql's write capability. If you look on MySql's web site
>> they plainly tell you that their not the worlds fastest database at writes,
>> only reads. Kinda like comparing the abilities of a car and a motorcycle to
>> back up a hill.
>> Short answer, we've all been there, done that before and are still
>> smarting from the end results. It's simply a matter of people who want to
>> forget history and repeat the mistakes of the past.
>> *Dick Goulet***
>> Senior Oracle DBA
>> PAREXEL International
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* [mailto:
>>] *On Behalf Of *Sunil Kanderi
>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 02, 2009 2:47 PM
>> *To:*
>> *Subject:* No to SQL? Anti-database movement gains steam
>> Interesting article in ComputerWorld about the NoSQL movement. Most of my
>> DBA experience has been primarily related to large ERP applications and
>> recently had to start supporting Java Development environment and it almost
>> feels like a totally different world. Looking at ORM tools like Hibernate,
>> which is very popular with Java crowd, it baffles me as to how little SQL
>> one really needs to know to get by with and their general aversion to
>> understanding SQL. At this point these NoSQL alternatives do not seem to
>> apply to the enterprises, but mostly to Web 2.0 based applications. However
>> things could change and was curious to know what the broader Oracle
>> community thinks about these alternatives especially with Cloud computing
>> and databases on the cloud, fast catching on within the enterprises. At my
>> work place, we are migrating all out hardware/database infrastructure to a
>> hosted platform and I wouldn't be surprised if within the next three years
>> all our applications being totally supported on a cloud platform. This will
>> undoubtedly have a big impact on the infrastructure folks, be it OS/hardware
>> or Database.
>> Here is a good discussion on the article sited above.
>> Best,
>> Sunil.
> --
> Toon Koppelaars
> RuleGen BV
> +31-615907269
> (co)Author: "Applied Mathematics for Database Professionals"

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Received on Thu Jul 02 2009 - 22:55:05 CDT

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