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Re: Re:RE: Backups

From: Ruth Gramolini <rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us>
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 11:18:46 -0800
Message-ID: <F001.004DFD58.20021003111846@fatcity.com>


Rman keeps track of everything. No hand documentation..I like that! You have to use a third party media manager to go directly to tape but you can backup to disk and then use the OS utilities to put the backups on tape.

Ruth
----- Original Message -----

To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com> Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 2:43 PM

I've used cpio, dd, and fbackup to do hot and cold backups before, but never again. With those utilities the burden of keeping track of what is on which tape rests with you and normally a stubby pencil & pad of paper because you know
what won't be available when you need to do a recovery. They do work be assured, but the administrative overhead is just not worth it anymore, even for
a small shop. Get a copy of Veritas or OmniBack or some other software package
that does library management for you and preferably integrates with RMAN. Life
can be so much easier!!

Dick Goulet

____________________Reply Separator____________________
Author: "Markham; Richard" <RMarkham_at_hafeleamericas.com>
Date:       10/3/2002 10:03 AM

It would be interesting to see how you would explain how either cp or dd (which know nothing of archive log mode, or the concept of hot backup, itself, none the less) is going to keep things consistent, when these utilities themselves are for point in time operations.

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

This doesn't sound right. Put the database in hot backup mode, backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility), come out of hot backup mode. Why wouldn't you be able to recover?

John P Weatherman
Database Administrator
Replacements Ltd.

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that database must be closed when you do the backup. If it is not, you won't be able to recover.

Just a thot,
Ruth

Robyn,
 We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked fine except that it used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of the dd tape.
Other users will know about the transportability issues. Ron
 ROR mm

>>> Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com 10/02/02 08:08PM >>> Hello,

I need some info about backups. I am working on a customer site, and have implemented both exports and hot backups. Both jobs copy to a separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then moves the files to tape.

Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals. The file system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array. We've provided him with a ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be recovered from this tape? Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

Robyn

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Author: Ruth Gramolini
  INET: rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us

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Author: John Weatherman
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<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2653.12">
<TITLE>RE: Backups</TITLE>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>It would be interesting to see how you would explain how either</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>cp or dd (which know nothing of archive log mode, or the concept</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>of hot backup, itself, none the less) is going to keep things</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>consistent, when these utilities themselves are for point in

</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>time operations.</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>From: John Weatherman [<A HREF="mailto:john.weatherman_at_replacements.com">mailto:john.weatherman_at_replac emen
ts.com</A>]</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Subject: RE: Backups</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>This doesn't sound right.&nbsp; Put the database in hot backup
mode,</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster
here</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other
utility),</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>come out of hot backup mode.&nbsp; Why wouldn't you be able to
recover? </FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>John P Weatherman</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Database Administrator</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Replacements Ltd.</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery
that</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>database must be closed when you do the backup.&nbsp; If it is
not, you won't be</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>able to recover.</FONT> </P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Just a thot,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Ruth</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>----- Original Message -----</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: &quot;Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L&quot; &lt;ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com&gt;</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Robyn,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&nbsp;We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices.
It worked</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>fine except that it&nbsp; used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of
the data</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd
function</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't
know for</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>the dd tape.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Other users will know about the transportability issues.</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Ron</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&nbsp;ROR mm</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>&gt;&gt;&gt; Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com 10/02/02 08:08PM &gt;&gt;&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Hello,</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>I need some info about backups.&nbsp; I am working on a customer
site, and</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>have implemented both exports and hot backups.&nbsp; Both jobs
copy to a</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual
then</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>moves the files to tape.</FONT> </P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because
it</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals.&nbsp; The file</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array.&nbsp; We've provided
him with a</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system
be</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>recovered from this tape?&nbsp; Has anyone ever relied on a dd
for a daily</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.</FONT> </P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Robyn</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>--</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: <A HREF="http://www.orafaq.com"
TARGET="_blank">http://www.orafaq.com</A></FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>--</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Author: Robyn Anderson Sands</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&nbsp; INET: Robyn_at_iTeamTech.com</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Fat City Network Services&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -- 858-538-5051 <A
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<BR><FONT SIZE=2>-- </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Author: Ruth Gramolini</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&nbsp; INET: rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Fat City Network Services&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -- 858-538-5051 <A
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Author: Ruth Gramolini
  INET: rgramolini_at_tax.state.vt.us

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