RE: shutdown abort / startup restrict / shutdown vs. shutdown imm

I have had this happen on a test system where nobody else and no apps where making any transactions. My cold backups 'shutdown immediate' cammand hang for the whole weekend. I did a shutdown abort on Monday morning. I find it just about impossible to believe that any rollbacks where happening. And like in April's posts, Oracle corp seems to think that doing a shutdown abort is the fix. That is a flaw to me.  

Dave

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 3:21 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L imm

You are assuming that shutdown immediate is a fix amount of time. If there is a lot to rollback it may take longer to rollback (via shutdown immediate) than the parallel crash recovery (the startup after a shutdown abort). It depends on the system. The question was why is immediate better than abort? I wanted to challenge the assumption that it is not safe to do an abort. You are relying on Oracle's recovery mechanisms which I have to assume are reliable. It is after all one of the reasons I prefer Oracle.

• Rich

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 3:34 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L imm

Well.....  

I'll agree with you only on the basis that shutdown immediate sometimes hangs and in those cases it is quicker to do the abort/start/shut normal combination. However, based on a quick review of my logs from last night (cold backup), I see the shutdown immediate took about 12 seconds. The following startup (which needed no recovery) took about a minute.  

Had I used the shut abort technique, I expect I would have seen, let's say 5 seconds for the shut abort, 60 seconds or so for the startup restricted, then about 12 seconds for the shutdown normal.  

Hmmm. Doesn't seem so cut and dried to me. I think I'll keep using my shutdown script that tries shutdown immediate and only does the abort, etc. if immediate takes too long. At this site, the shutdown immediate only seems to fail about once a month. I can live with that unless someone comes up with a more compelling reason why the shutdown abort is better than a shutdown immediate. So far, all I've seen is the argument that shutdown abort is not evil -- I'm not one who thinks it is evil, I'm just not convinced that it is somehow better. Kevin Kennedy
First Point Energy Corporation

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 11:14 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L imm

I don't necessarily agree that shutdown immediate is quicker. If you force a checkpoint prior to the shutdown abort the subsequent crash recovery upon startup is usually pretty fast. Parallel recovery could be a factor as well. - Rich

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 1:14 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L immedia

For openers, shutdown immediate is generally quicker than the combination of shutdown-abort/startup-restrict/shutdown-normal. It is also gentler. Consider the analogy of shutting down a Windows desktop computer. Is it preferable to do a standard software shutdown (and maybe tell Windows that you really want to end that hung process) or is it preferable to yank the plug out of the wall then plug it back in again, start up the machine, then shut it down gracefully? I always try to shut Windows down gracefully and only pull the plug when the damn thing is too stupid or brain dead to figure out what shutdown means. I do the same with Oracle. Kevin Kennedy
First Point Energy Corporation

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 7:53 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L immedia

> -----Original Message-----
> From: April Wells [ mailto:awells_at_csedge.com]
>
> The solutions (the ones that I got) aren't good ones.
>
> Shutdown abort/startup restricted/ shutdown immediate... (a 'VALID
> solution'???)

This might be a naive question, but why is -> shutdown immediate
better than
-> shutdown abort / startup restrict / shutdown normal ?

(That is assuming of course that no user / job will try to sneak in after you do the startup restrict)

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