Yeh, but he is the Prez ... :)
Paul
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 12:39 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> if you are a lousy presenter, giving bad information,
> you get horrible scores, and...
Unfortunately, there is no reliable correlation between giving bad
information and getting horrible scores, at either conference. Some of
the best-ranked presentations in Oracle conference history have been
some of the most damaging.
Cary Millsap
Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
http://www.hotsos.com
Upcoming events:
- Hotsos Clinic, Jul 9-11 New York City
- Hotsos Clinic, Jul 23-25 Chicago
- 2003 Hotsos Symposium on OracleR System Performance, Feb 9-12 Dallas
-----Original Message-----
Ian A.
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 10:54 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
I'll bet a dynamic animated speaker chockful of amusing anecdotes whose
presentation is technically weak scores better than a plodding
monotonous one with better information to convey :) Especialy if the
audience is composed of nascent DBA's :)
Ian MacGregor
Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
ian_at_SLAC.Stanford.edu
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 5:09 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
one being a marketing venue, the other being a place where you can
learn from ohers experiences.
and to clarify further, if you are a lousy presenter, giving bad
information, you get horrible scores and, since the selection process
is not blind, don't get asked back to present again.
So having a list of many presentations, at various conferences, can be
an indicator of knowledge.
- "Karniotis, Stephen" <Stephen_Karniotis_at_compuware.com> wrote:
> Let me clarify something. It was at Oracle Open World, not IOUG-A
> Live
> where these presentations were made. Please do not confuse the two!!
>
> Thank You
>
> Stephen P. Karniotis
> Product Architect
> Compuware Corporation
> Direct: (248) 865-4350
> Mobile: (248) 408-2918
> Email: Stephen.Karniotis_at_Compuware.com
> Web: www.compuware.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 5:41 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: RE: the ora certified masters cert, yet again
>
> A tip o' the hat to all authors and presenters. However writing a
> book
> makes no one an expert on anything. There are Oracle books
> containing
> fabulous stories of what happens when a tablespace is put in backup
> mode,
> and while quite entertaining they do not further a correct
> understanding of
> Oracle. Authors take the time to put what they believe to be true on
> paper.
> It's often what they have been told, not what they have learned on
> their
> own. Richard Niemiec's sp? tuning books have been trashed recently
> because
> they tout buffer hit ratios; however there was a consensus in the
> Oracle
> community that these were important. It took Cary Millsap's paper
> and a new
> tuning paradigm introduced by Gaja Vaidyanatha, Kirtikumar Deshpande,
> and
> John Kostelac Jr. to direct us to something more useful. Personally,
> I was
> using wait events before Gaja's book, but I was also trying to keep
> the hit
> ratio's high as a part of the "consensus". If I had written a book
> before
> seeing Cary's paper!
> !
> , it
> would have touted hit ratios. I don't believe "Oracle 101
> Performance
> Tuning" is a perfect book; it doesn't properly address data
> collection
> needs.
>
> Why would authorship and presentations be worth more than an OCP?
> The OCP
> says that you have achieved a standard. One can debate whether that
> standard has any meaning. There is no standard at all for
> authors/presenters. It does seem however that many OCP holders know
> far
> less than their certificate would indicate, and some authors are more
> expert
> than their books convey. A good author of Oracle tomes and
> presentations
> needs a clearer understanding of the subject matter than an OCP.
> Good
> authors hold themselves to higher standards than needed to be called
> an OCP.
> I just want to point out that not all authors are good authors, and
> that
> there are OCP holders who have not written books that are as if not
> more
> knowlegeable than most authors. There are people who have done
> neither who
> know as much if not more than both.
>
> The OCM was introduced for two reasons. Oracle is in business to
> make money
> and wanted another revenue stream, and the standards one must meet to
> become
> an OCP were being questioned. Unfortunately at last years IOUG-A
> conference the six people who were given their OCM's were touted as
> the six
> most knowledgeable Oracle experts in th world. The awardees did not
> include
> Gaja, nor Kirti, nor Anjo Kolk, nor Steve Adams, nor Jonathan Lewis,
> nor Guy
> Harrison, nor Larry Elkins... Indeed only one person on the awarded
> the
> OCM would I have placed in any top six list, and that's Paul Dorsey
> who is
> extremely knowlegeable concerning Oracle's development tools. There
> were
> some awardees I know nothing about. Despite this over-the-top
> rollout, the
> OCM under proper care could become a certification with real meaning,
> by
> that I mean more important than being an author or a presenter
>
>
> Ian MacGregor
> Stanford Linear Acclerator Center
> ian_at_SLAC.Stanford.edu
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 11:17 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> Rachel has really baiting me on this one, as she is well aware of my
> position on certifications, especially Oracle's. I watched some of
> this
> thread start and laughed.
>
> Vendor-sponsored certifications are no more valuable to the
> marketplace than
> the software they claim is 100% bug free. This is especially true
> when the
> vendor "pushes" the certification out to the market for next to
> nothing and
> then complains that the industry sees no value in it because SOOOOOO
> many
> people have it. Who's to blame for that. Why do you think Microsoft
> reduced the number of organizations that offer MCS* certifications?
> There
> are TOOOO MANY. Our company offered MCS* certifications, including a
> complete training program, as required and it brought NO VALUE.
>
> Look at companies like Novell, etc. Originally, Novel's
> certifications,
> CNA, CNE, & CNAE, were offered at a high cost and only the few and
> proud had
> obtained it. The original certification exams, CSP, CCP, etc. that
> were
> offered by third-party institutes have also lost their value as
> anyone with
> a book and time can pass them. It's too bad because certifications
> DID mean
> something in the 1980s and early 1990s.
>
> Oracle is crying in its own spoiled milk on this one. They caused
> the
> problem and now they are trying to fix it by ramming a new program
> down our
> throats. Think about it folks. You have to pay an additional $ 2000
> for
> what? The only reason people will take this ridiculous path is to
> achieve a
> higher level in the Oracle Partner Program. No More. No less.
>
> If you really think that having an OCM or OCP or other certification
> is
> going to make the difference in you getting a job, you have REAL
> problems.
> As far as Rachel substituting books and presentations for
> certifications, I
> agree with her. As a personal friend of hers ( I hope still after
> this long
> email), I also do not have my certification because my experience
> shows:
> 25+ presentations around the world, recognized industry expert, and
> 17+
> years doing the job.
>
> OK. I'm off the soap box. Get off the certification box now before
> it
> collapses and Oracle builds another one. You know: If Oracle would
> concentrate on building better quality software with the time spent
> on this
> stupid certification program, all of us would be better off!
>
> Thank You
>
> Stephen P. Karniotis
> Product Architect
> Compuware Corporation
> Direct: (248) 865-4350
> Mobile: (248) 408-2918
> Email: Stephen.Karniotis_at_Compuware.com
> Web: www.compuware.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 12:19 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Re: the ora certified masters cert, yet again
>
=== message truncated ===
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Received on Wed Jun 26 2002 - 12:43:27 CDT
