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Home -> Community -> Mailing Lists -> Oracle-L -> RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
learning is not necessarily solving problems... when I learn a poem, or learn about history,there's no problem I am solving.
I was motivated to learn physics, it was an important requirement of my degree program. I could not "get it". Didn;t matter how hard I tried, it never became clear. I squeaked by with barely a passing grade.
oh, and it's 'deem', not deam -- there is no such word.
IQ is a biased testing in any case.... child who have not grown up in an environment conducive to learning tend to show lower IQ scores. It is NOT scientifically valid.
>From: Christopher Spence <cspence_at_FuelSpot.com>
>Reply-To: ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>
>Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
>Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 11:56:01 -0800
>
>I disagree. But I am speaking in a purely technical term of learning, not
>factoring other things such as interest.
>
>That is like saying an engine is not a power plant of a vehicle because
>there is a brick wall stoping it from driving away.
>
>I am sure if you were interested you could learn physics and communication.
>Surely you may not be interested in it, but you have the ability to do so
>if
>you so chose. Your ability to have that ability is what I deam as IQ.
>
>Some people may try and try and never learn physics no matter how much they
>want to. This is where I 'believe' IQ has taken it's toll.
>
>But I think we are saying the similar, I agree IQ is the capacity, but it
>is
>also what detirmines how you grasp things and how quickly you can solve
>problems. Learning in my opinion is the same as solving problems. Which
>is
>what IQ is all about.
>
>"Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way
>when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes."
>
>Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA
>Oracle DBA
>Phone: (978) 322-5744
>Fax: (707) 885-2275
>
>Fuelspot
>73 Princeton Street
>North, Chelmsford 01863
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 3:24 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>depends on what you are learning. My IQ is not low, yet I CANNOT for the
>life of me learn physics or data communications.
>
>IQ may be part of it. INTEREST in the subject is part too.
>
>and IQ is not ability to learn, but capacity to learn.
>
>
> >From: Christopher Spence <cspence_at_FuelSpot.com>
> >Reply-To: ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>
> >Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
> >Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 10:39:27 -0800
> >
> >IQ from what I understand is COMPLETELY related to how fast you learn.
> >
> >IQ is your ability to learn, nothing to do with how "Smart" you are.
> >
> >Smart is how much you know, nothing to do with how you learn.
> >
> >"Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that
> >way when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their
> >shoes."
> >
> >Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA
> >Oracle DBA
> >Phone: (978) 322-5744
> >Fax: (707) 885-2275
> >
> >Fuelspot
> >73 Princeton Street
> >North, Chelmsford 01863
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 2:06 PM
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> >since when did IQ have any relation to how fast you learn?
> >
> >some of the most brilliant people I know are slow thinkers, who take
> >time
> >to
> >
> >process what they are learning and take even more time to make sure
> >that what they are saying is accurate before they speak.
> >
> >
> > >From: Christopher Spence <cspence_at_FuelSpot.com>
> > >Reply-To: ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com
> > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>
> > >Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
> > >Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 08:56:32 -0800
> > >
> > >I would be curious of HOW WELL he knows those things.
> > >Anyone can learn most of everything out there, but to be able to do
> > >it and do it well is another thing.
> > >
> > >Also when you go so many directions like that, you never work on the
> > >same thing for long, which means you need to be able to jump back
> > >into something else VERY quickly or there is no sense learning it in
> > >the first place.
> > >
> > >There is one thing as being good at many things, but when the sh%t
> > >really hits the fan, you call someone that knows what their doing,
> > >not the jack of all trades.
> > >
> > >I being 26, I found myself becoming a jack of all trades, and I think
> > >I still am. I did not like that, so I picked up Oracle about 3.5
> > >years ago and decided I am going to take one thing, and be damn good
> > >at it. I was a good system admin and adapted very well. But I did
> > >not get the luxery of REALLY knowing everything about what I was
> > >using. Although I generally can figure things out extremely quick
> > >where it appears I know it. "I!" was not comfortable with my
> > >accomplishments, I wanted to know more and more. I could not do that
> > >doing what I was doing, broad generalization was not how I wanted to
> > >be.
> > >
> > >With an iq of 147, I think I can be considered a very quick learner.
> > >I know for a fact that 4 years ago when I was 22, I could not do all
> > >of what was claimed in previous email by Mark (Oracle DBA, Sybase
> > >Admin, SQL Server DBA,
> > >JAVA, HTML) and consider myself great at it. Although you can be very
> > >comfortable with them, comfort can be obtained in very short time
>frames.
> > >True talent to play as an allstar takes years, no matter how smart you
> >are
> > >and what ya doing.
> > >
> > >I once met a street sweeper who was going on to 50 years old, I asked
> > >him why did he not try to find a better job. His answer was "Because
> > >I am the best street sweeper there ever was." After
> > >saying that, I had a new found respect for him and was detirmined to
>seek
> > >the same motivation in my life.
> > >
> > >"Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes,
> > >that way when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their
> > >shoes."
> > >
> > >Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA
> > >Oracle DBA
> > >Phone: (978) 322-5744
> > >Fax: (707) 885-2275
> > >
> > >Fuelspot
> > >73 Princeton Street
> > >North, Chelmsford 01863
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 11:17 AM
> > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > >
> > >
> > >But Kevin, having all under his belt doesn't mean he's ever used it.
> > >Maybe we're not slackers afterall.
> > >
> > >Ruth
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>
> > >Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 10:15 AM
> > >
> > >
> > > > WOW, now I feel like slacker:)
> > > > KK
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>
> > > > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 7:51 AM
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Cheers Lee!
> > > > >
> > > > > Out of curiosity how old did you think I was? I was actually
> > > > > turned down
> > > > for
> > > > > cigarettes a few months back!! I couldn't believe it!! I'm 22
> > > > > BTW (only
> > >6
> > > > > years above the legal limit!).
> > > > >
> > > > > Already got Oracle Admin, SQLServer admin, HTML & JAVA
> > > > > programming under
> > > > my
> > > > > belt - with a little Sybase ASE around the edges and currently
> > > > > moving in
> > > > to
> > > > > the DB2 world!! Not bad for 4 years of intensive reading a
> > > > > playing..
> > > > >
> > > > > My next step is to sink my teeth in to UNIX..
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > Lee - lerobe
> > > > > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 12:01
> > > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > After having firstly talking to Mark at length on the phone
> > > > > while
> > > > evaluating
> > > > > some of his products, I was extremely surprised to see exactly
> > > > > how young
> > > > he
> > > > > actually was (or at least looked !!)when I met him at the Oracle
> > > > > 9i
> > >launch
> > > > > at Oracle UK. As for me, a late starter in 1990 on Cobol after
> > > > > dropping
> > > > out
> > > > > of studying law in 81, to join a band (dad wouldn't speak to me
> > > > > for a
> > > > couple
> > > > > of months but later became one of our biggest fans !!)and play
> > > > > for about
> > > > 7-8
> > > > > years, reasonably successful but no Gold Disks :-). Went on to
> > > > > use
> > >Ingres,
> > > > > Unix and C (development and DBA/S.A, then Oracle and
> > > > > Informix(DBA). Now purely on Oracle as a DBA and loving every
> > > > > minute of it - Honest.
> > > > >
> > > > > Big future Mark - best of luck !!
> > > > >
> > > > > Lee (hobbling his way into the old school - agewise anyway !!)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > Sent: 03 August 2001 11:06
> > > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Ahhhhhh 79, I remember those good old days.. Back then I was
> > > > > still
> > > > drinking
> > > > > milk out of a bottle on a pink sand beach in Bermuda :)
> > > > >
> > > > > I actually started in the IT industry directly in to software
> > > > > sales on Oracle/Sybase tools 4 years ago now - though I did have
> > > > > a hell of a head start working with computers due to my "old
> > > > > man" also being in software/hardware sales since I can remember
> > > > > - he also started out as a computer operator on an IBM 360
> > > > > mainframe? I actually started my working life as an anodiser of
> > > > > all things - an ageing process for aluminium for those that
> > > > > don't know, where by you treat the aluminium in vats of
> > > > sulphuric
> > > > > acid, and caustic soda all heated with electricity running
> > > > > through.. Did
> > > > it
> > > > > manually too with big rubber gloves, boots and apron! I much
> > > > > prefer
> > > > tapping
> > > > > my keyboard I can tell ya!
> > > > >
> > > > > Roll on the new wave of technology! VR here we come! And a great
> > > > > big
> > >hand
> > > > to
> > > > > the "oldies" for making the computer industry what it is now!
> > > > >
> > > > > Mark (One from the young camp)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > Kanagaraj
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 10:14
> > > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Paul,
> > > > >
> > > > > I want to echo your sentiment. Now that I am approaching 40 and
> > > > > feeling dinosaurish, it is nice to know that a large number of
> > > > > dinosaurs (or 'OraSaurus' as Don puts it) still exist.
> > > > >
> > > > > Btw, I keep hearing of Age discrimination in the IT industry.
> > > > > Reading through these notes, is it fair to say that this is less
> > > > > true among
> > >DBAs?
> > > > >
> > > > > As far me, started out in 79 in college with IBM 1620/Fortran
> > > > > and punched-card Input/Output trays (used to be able to read
> > > > > Hollerith code
> > > > once
> > > > > upon a time!). Progressed to Cobol in my first job in 84 and
> > > > > later to XENIX/UNIX, and teaching the User *never* to use 'ior
> > > > > i' to 'startup'
> > >the
> > > > V5
> > > > > database...
> > > > >
> > > > > John Kanagaraj
> > > > > Oracle Applications DBA
> > > > > DB Soft Inc
> > > > > Work : (408) 970 7002
> > > > >
> > > > > Listen to great, commercial-free christian music 24x7x365 at
> > > > > http://www.klove.com
> > > > >
> > > > > ** The opinions and facts contained in this message are entirely
> > > > > mine and do not reflect those of my employer or customers **
> > > > >
> > > > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > > > >From: Paul Baumgartel [mailto:pbaumgartel_at_mortgagesight.com]
> > > > > >Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 12:35 PM
> > > > > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > > > >Subject: computer history stories
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >I just want to thank everyone whose stories indicate that they
> > > > > >are at least middle-aged--for a while (especially at my last
> > > > > >job where the average age was about 25), I'd been feeling as
> > > > > >though I was the last over-40 tech-head left on the East Coast.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Now, as long as I'm posting, my "how-I-got-started" story:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >I majored in liberal arts and worked as a real-estate property
> > > > > >manager for about 5 years. Encouraged by programmer friends, I
> > > > > >took some classes, in Fortran, Intro. to Computer Logic, and DG
> > > > > >MV/8000 assembly language. My first job, in 1981, was as an
> > > > > >assembly language programmer, but not for the
> > > > > >MV/8000; rather, writing firmware for the Intel 8085. I
> > > > > >couldn't believe
> > > > > >how primitive it seemed after programming for the
> > >then-state-of-the-art
> > > > > >MV/8000. The experience, though, of working from hardware
> > > > > >schematics and Intel data books was invaluable. You really
> > > > > >know how a computer works when you've learned about asserting
> > > > > >ALE (address latch enable) and strobing the
> > > > > >address bus!
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Paul Baumgartel
> > > > > >MortgageSight Holdings, LLC pbaumgartel_at_mortgagesight.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > >--
> > > > > >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > > > > >--
> > > > > >Author: Paul Baumgartel
> > > > > > INET: pbaumgartel_at_mortgagesight.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858)
>538-5051
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>the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
-- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: carmichr_at_hotmail.com Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists -------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).Received on Mon Aug 06 2001 - 15:09:03 CDT
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