RE: recruiters. Aargh. (More on them!)

Great points!

And this is my last comment on the Utopian DBA island we are developing (since we are obviously starting to annoy people ;) ), and it has to do with your last comment:

We will place Steve at the highest point on the island and visit him periodically for wisdom on such topics as the 82 layers of the Oracle kernel - thus, the "Oracle of Oracle"...

Now I'm done.

Jim (still in Friday mode)

> Agreed highly on the specialist comment, I tend to like development so I
> rather focus on just oracle and learn more devleopment. But learning
other
> databases rather than development is a very novel idea. It depends on the
> person totally, I tend to like to create stuff. I do oracle only because
I
> am good at keeping things together as a sys admin for a few years.
Although
> it may not be exactly what I want to do, I do it well so magin well try to
> be the best at it. Although Steve makes that nearly impossible task.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 10:06 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> I don't know about this development business. I think about this a lot (I
> don't have a life).
>
> I keep an eye on Developer, Jdeveloper, Cherokee (which is dead I hear),
> Visual C++, etc. etc. but I am not great at any of them.
>
> There is just too much for one person to learn and be good at both sides,
in
> my opinion.
>
> If I had a project to handle I would prefer hiring a team of people which
is
> composed of outstanding DBAs and outstanding developers, each good in
their
> own field, rather than hire a bunch of people who can do a little of
> everything.
>
> When you put specialists together with clear areas of expertise, in a
team,
> you may end up with something greater than the sum of its parts (gestalt).
>
> If you put a bunch of OK generalists together, you will end up with... a
> workgroup and OK result. Probably.
>
> As a DBA I am more interested in learning about SQL Server, DB2, and
others,
> and in OSes than in doing development.
>
> That's just my personal preference.
>
> Maybe if I was a great developer I could do contracts and drive a Porsche
> like my NT instructor did, I don't know. Maybe once I am confident I know
> enough about the foundation my development work would run on...
>
> Regards,
> Patrice Boivin
> Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
>
> Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
> Technology Services | Services technologiques
> Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
> Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO
>
> E-Mail: boivinp_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca <mailto:boivinp_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christopher Spence [SMTP:cspence_at_FuelSpot.com]
> Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 5:45 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: RE: recruiters. Aargh. (More on them!)
>
> As a dba you don't have to do designing and development. You will
> find
> though 2 years is tough.
> Here is my assessment.
>
> 1-3 years experience Very tough to find a job but everyone wants
> to
> waste your times in interviews
> 3-5 years experience Alot of opportunities but will fall short
> for
> "senior" positions
> 6+ years of experience Tons of jobs, alot of them want you for
> midlevel
> positions (based on offered salary).
>
> To be honest, there isn't much difference in salary between a 5 year
> dba and
> 20 years.
> Once you make 5 year mark, your pretty much home free (I am yet to
> hit it as
> I been doing Oracle for 3.5 years, and about 2 of very solid work).
> The
> first 5 years are tough in my opinion unless you have something
> special
> someone wants. For me, it has been my dedication and tenacity not
> my length
> of service.
>
> I have talked to alot of DBA's in my short period of time, and I
> have
> detirmined one thing, attitude is KEY.
> You have to have a certain something as there are many things
> involved with
> Oracle and in my opinion very few people in comparison to the amount
> of
> dba's out there actually put effort into it to become better.
>
> Traits I feel are important:
>
> 1. Hunger, desire to be the best
> 2. Ability to stand your ground with developers
> 3. Ability to bend for developers when the task depends on it
> 4. Ability to stare at a book for hours
> 5. Desire to read things just because you want to
> 6. Schedule to handle long hours when in a crunch
> 7. Motivation to better yourself when things are slow and
> everything is
> working (hardly ever)
> 8. Ability to take critism for everything, it is always a database
> problem
> unless proved otherwise.
>
> Not to go way off topic, but there are jobs out there for 2 year
> dba's, but
> your attitude will be the number 1 factor if you can do anything
> with them
> after you get your foot in the door. Your recruiter and your resume
> is what
> is the number 1 factor to just get in the door.
>
> I happen to be better once I am in the door, many people happen to
> be better
> at getting in the door. You have to be able to do both.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 3:55 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> Hi!..
>
> Can someone please help me?
>
> I have worked as oracle Dba for 2 and half years
> and now the recruiters 'complain' that I have
> not done any 'designing or development'.
>
> Can someone please advise on 'where do I go from here'?
>
> Thanks
>
> PS: Oracle is 'useless' in giving such advise, cos
> their 'worldview' starts and ends with OCP.
> which I find recruiters 'barely notice'!!!!!
>
> ------------- Original Message --------------
> Henry Poras <Henry.Poras_at_ctp.com> wrote:
> To:Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>
> From:Henry Poras <Henry.Poras_at_ctp.com>
> Date:Fri, 18 May 2001 12:06:50 -0800
> Subject:recruiters. Aargh
>
> Funny story from earlier this week. I've been pestered by a
> recruiter making
> cold calls who is trying to get me to hire an Oracle Developer. I
> told her
> we had a hiring freeze, but she claimed he walked on water, and we
> couldn't
> pass him up. I asked her to fax a resume and told her I would look
> at it. Of
> course the resume was nothing special. When I told her "the resume
> does not
> warrent us superceeding the hiring freeze" I could almost hear the
> lightbulb
> popping above her head as she contemplated the next call to our
> switchboard.
> "Warren, is that the name of your manager?" she asked. bye bye.
>
> Henry
>
>
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
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> Author: Henry Poras
> INET: Henry.Poras_at_ctp.com
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