RE: Oracle Licensing

Well, if you don't want product updates/upgrades for Oracle then you can knock about $15K off of that $45K for Oracle (and with SQL Server it looks like you can only upgrade the user licenses and not the processor licensing--looks like to upgrade you'd have to buy the new version anyways). Now for SQL Server support, there is a good pricing "menu" here for MS support for SQL Server:

http://www.microsoft.com/servers/sup/support.asp?prd=sql&lu=3

Basically, they charge per call/per trouble report--online support requests will only cost you $195 per request and Microsoft Professional phone support will only cost you $245 per incident. So, for the sake of seeing what the cost comparison could be...say you are having lots of problems with SQL Server and you make 5 calls and 5 online requests the first year and then as that production database stabilizes you only make 4 online requests the second year (I've seen a shop make that many support calls on SQL Server in a single month before and twice in one day, but I'm assuming that a good admin would rarely call except for an emergency). On a per call basis, that would be $2980. Now let's see...we're impatient with our support and we don't want to have to wait for our payments to process ("Processing of the support contract takes one business day.") to get help with mission critical problems, so we order the support packs to "have them available". Judging by this estimate, we'd have two of the 6 pack of Web Support and let's say 2 of the 5 pack of phone support (cause everyone likes to be able to talk to someone when their databases are crashing and burning). So this would be $4200. Now with the Oracle support cost, it starts at $7K for the 1gig unlimited, and then throw in the volume discount (only about 20% at this level of cost...it can go up to about 30% without negotiating any other discounts and then it can be an even better discount just before the end of their fiscal year--so buying in May is a good idea)...it comes out to be $5600. Not too bad of a difference.

Now look at this scenario:

I have a box with four 500 Mhz CPUs.

Oracle with support and updates (the 2 year licensing scenario): $85,500 Microsoft without support and without updates: $79,996

After all, the MS processor licensing is $19999 per CPU. Now let's throw in a hypothetical that one year after buying your MS SQL Server, a new version comes out that just blows the previous version away--it fixes all the problems that your specific site has been having, it's faster, it's more scalable, it's more reliable and it will even start brewing coffee for you when it logs a database problem late at night. Now to upgrade to this new version (unless MS provides an upgrade option for the processor licensing in the future), it would cost you another $79,996 (and the same scenario with Oracle would only cost you the price to have them ship you the media...if you want it on disk that is). Anyways, just some things to think about with all of this. :)

***Now, we all seem to agree that the current licensing scenario for Oracle is a bit prohibitive...maybe we should collaborate and think of a pricing scenario that is fair, yet still competitive for them, and maybe if we get enough people to suggest it to them (and mention that they'd probably get a higher volume of sales with these pricing options)...

Jeffery Stevenson
Chief Databeast Tamer
Medical Present Value, Inc.
Austin, TX

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 5:00 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

As luck would have it I was evaluating the prices of Oracle and then SQL Server today.

My question at this point is, what kind of prices does Microsoft charge for support, I was pretending to purchase SQL Server and noticed that no mention is made about product support.

Using the "Power Unit" method MS and Oracle come out within about $5k of each other, but when you get to their Enterprise editions, MS is just under $20k where as Oracle is way out there. The cheaoest I could get Oracle, with unlimited users (which is what I need). On a 1ghz Intel, single processor machine with a 2 yr lic, Oracle Enterprise costs $45,600 (thats if you want support with your DB).

If it were my money $20k vs. $45k+, hummm.

I'm no Friend-of-Bill, but one has to wonder how Oracle can compete with such a huge price difference. Is MS doing to Oracle what it did to Netscape and dozens of other companies?

Tom

>Martin Kendall - Martin.Kendall_at_Rubus.com on 3/5/2001 4:45 PM writes us:

>I'm following this thread and a worrying thought has crossed my mind:-
>
>If Oracle carries on with this pricing model, soon we will all be looking
>for a new job......scary :-)
>
>Martin Kendall
>
>-----Original Message-----
>Sent: 02 March 2001 22:00
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>Last time I danced with our sales rep, power units were per server, not per
>user... so the power unit price would be 400*100 = 40,000 for an unlimited
>(Ha!
>at 200mhz?) number of users. If you ask nicely, yours may agree to convert
>any
>concurrent or named user licenses you have into power unit credits.
>
>Dennis Taylor wrote:
>
>> At 06:25 AM 3/2/01 -0800, you wrote:
>> >the mire. At any rate, there are suppose to be two basic licensing
>> schemes, and
>> >GOD only knows how many "allowed" permutations:
>> >
>> > 1) Power Units which equates to the number of processors times the
>> speed of
>> >the processors in Megahertz. Oh, BTW: it matters if their Intel or Risc
>> >processors too. Risc processors are more expensive. In general this is
>the
>> >MOST expensive way to go.
>> >
>>
>> I went to the oracle site and did some calcs for adding users to Oracle
>> Enterprise. Kept sayin g to myself, "Naw, they must mean *hundreds* of
>> megahertz....". Anyway, for a very behind-the-curve system (2x200mhz
>> ppro's), it works out to $4000 per additional user.
>>
>> Or I can look at Interbase/Firebird, which is free.
>>
>> Today I will be assigning one of my staff the task of downloading,
>> installing, and evaluating Firebird.
>>
>> The only way I can imagine that Oracle thinking can be going is: "Hey,
>> revenues are dropping because of competition from free and less expensive
>> dbms's". "No problem. Raise prices to make up the shortfall". Then I say
>to
>> myself, "Naw, no-one can be that stupid". Then I check the per-user
prices
>> again....
>>
>> Dennis Taylor
>> --------------------------------
>> Good we must love, and must hate ill,
>> For ill is ill, and good good still.
>>
>> --
>> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>> --
>> Author: Dennis Taylor
>> INET: ismgr_at_pctc.com
>>
>> Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
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>--
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>--
>Author: Martin Kendall
> INET: Martin.Kendall_at_Rubus.com
>
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-- 
Author: Tom Schruefer
  INET: tschruefer_at_mail.howard.k12.md.us

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-- 
Author: Jeffery Stevenson
  INET: jeff_at_mpv.com

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