Path: dp-news.maxwell.syr.edu!spool.maxwell.syr.edu!drn.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.comcast.com!news.comcast.com.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 06:56:03 -0500 Reply-To: "Laconic2" From: "Laconic2" Newsgroups: comp.databases.theory References: <10n47jojjcm9gdd@corp.supernews.com> <18c7b3c2.0410171238.3096021a@posting.google.com> <18c7b3c2.0410181859.4cf9bfd6@posting.google.com> Subject: Re: Primary vs. Surrogate! What a nightmare debate. Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 07:55:53 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: Lines: 58 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.60.68.134 X-Trace: sv3-vtconjhUMLCqw1SyacXhiaFCZh+kwQwXFcl/ddN8uYvcW4ScrCZLZhLMt29VSJuJF/XiewCBrPT480j!1T7bIyAEqOR89PPxNrxVAHrzkZOnn/pKzD7dNhyZpqRAt/FuO5M5IB/LyftO X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-DMCA-Complaints-To: dmca@comcast.net X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.20 Xref: dp-news.maxwell.syr.edu comp.databases.theory:27061 "Marshall Spight" wrote in message news:ak2dd.266907$MQ5.8260@attbi_s52... > > Ack! No lisp involved! > > We don't sell any physical goods, is all I'm saying. We sell a service, > but it's not physical either; no technician comes to your door. You > send us money and we do stuff with our database. So there's nothing > in the physical world for us to use a source of natural keys, unless > maybe we were to hash what the customer sends us. Same thing for a bank or an insurance company. Same thing for an airline reservation system. In fact, the term "employee" in a personnel system is an abstraction. A "person" is a natural object. But an "employee" is an artificial role that we assign to real persons. > > > > >> "Surrogate" keys as you define them strike me as vile. << > > > > That is not me; that is Dr. Codd. > > Six of one. :-) > From a certain point of view, all keys are surrogate. In the Hindu view of the universe, the universe is initially whole. The process of analyzing the universe into discrete entities is a fomr of illusion about the universe, which they call "maya". So the process I recommend so much, of starting with ER analysis, and working your way to attributes, then to relations, then to tables, then to indexes, and the to database objects, is a process of successive self deception, in the Hindu view. That is why I am not a "Guru". Now ask me why I'm not a "geek". > It makes sense when you put it like that, but I still get surprised. I am continually shocked, but not surprised, when I see people saying things like: "We've got to get version one of the Hospital Administration System to market in three months! After that, maybe we'll have time to figure out how a hospital really works." I will never for the life of me figure out how that can possibly work!