Path: news.easynews.com!core-easynews!newsfeed3.easynews.com!easynews.com!easynews!news.glorb.com!postnews2.google.com!not-for-mail From: neo55592@hotmail.com (Neo) Newsgroups: comp.databases.theory Subject: Re: A Normalization Question Date: 6 Jul 2004 18:39:00 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 46 Message-ID: <4b45d3ad.0407061739.57ff6b12@posting.google.com> References: <20040626120209.29625.00000578@mb-m16.aol.com> <4b45d3ad.0406300959.36b2b9d2@posting.google.com> <2kggoeF24agdU1@uni-berlin.de> <9sJEc.52984$aJ3.39919@nwrdny02.gnilink.net> <4b45d3ad.0407011117.3cdd577c@posting.google.com> <2kj7sqF2lcg5U1@uni-berlin.de> <4b45d3ad.0407060921.64806da6@posting.google.com> <2l07o3F78a0gU1@uni-berlin.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.98.160.223 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1089164341 27854 127.0.0.1 (7 Jul 2004 01:39:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 01:39:01 +0000 (UTC) Xref: core-easynews comp.databases.theory:36651 X-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2004 18:38:09 MST (news.easynews.com) > ...the whole purpose of normalization is to determine which things > relate to which other things. This is an incorrect understanding of normalization. > You are overgeneralizing to the nth degree. No, you/RM are undergeneralizing to the 5th degree. > In normalization, one does not consider the values of the attributes... The general form of normalization applies to all data models. Because RM is a limited data model, it is either impossible or impractical to normalize some types of data (ie values of attributes) while other data models (ie TDM) can. > > If one chooses to ignore some things (ie 'brown', 'brown', 'brown'), > > then one has a limited understanding/implementation of normalization. > > Please read SOMETHING about functional dependencies > before you post this nonsense again. RM incorrectly senses that 'brown', 'brown', 'brown' are not redunant, no matter how many times one rereads it, because it is a limited data model. > We are talking about relational databases. I am talking about representing things in general and RM is only one limited method of doing so. > Strings don't have attributes except ... Sure they can as I have demonstrated earlier. It is not upto a data model to decide which data is "part of the data dictionary" or "in the normal business world". If it does, the data model is limited. > _Entities_ have attributes. > "Brown" is not an entity. Because 'brown' can have attributes (ie language, typeset, font, size, color, blinking, etc) it can by your definition be an entity. > Your view of this entire topic is completely twisted. No, your/RM's view of this entire topic is completely limited.