X-Received: by 10.236.229.233 with SMTP id h99mr31733264yhq.42.1425402419434; Tue, 03 Mar 2015 09:06:59 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.140.42.23 with SMTP id b23mr142055qga.23.1425402419417; Tue, 03 Mar 2015 09:06:59 -0800 (PST) Path: news.cambrium.nl!textnews.cambrium.nl!feeder3.cambriumusenet.nl!feed.tweaknews.nl!209.85.216.88.MISMATCH!j7no10560190qaq.1!news-out.google.com!n6ni191qar.0!nntp.google.com!w8no168950qac.0!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: comp.databases.oracle.server Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2015 09:06:59 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <78b0c306-2783-4ad1-aa53-5af1572781b9@googlegroups.com> Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=64.58.150.28; posting-account=tpQovAkAAABNoH5bwsZAiff2L0zxGwdv NNTP-Posting-Host: 64.58.150.28 References: <78b0c306-2783-4ad1-aa53-5af1572781b9@googlegroups.com> User-Agent: G2/1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Tom Kyte a false idol? From: joel garry Injection-Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2015 17:06:59 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Xref: news.cambrium.nl On Tuesday, March 3, 2015 at 8:33:49 AM UTC-8, steveg...@gmail.com wrote: > I just found this thread while trawling around looking for something and = actually Geomancer, I agree with you. >=20 > I find it extremely irritating how the self appointed select few come acr= oss as being better than the rest of us, but are they really? It may seem t= hat way because they have a public platform from which to demonstrate their= alleged superiority. However, there's nothing wrong with being a capable, = smart, hard working Oracle pro, just going about your business quietly and = efficiently without shouting from the mountain tops every 5 minutes about = how brilliant you think you are. The sheeple who buy into this are even wor= se IMO. Some people just continue to gorge on the Oracle Kool-Aid and some = don't. Personally, I don't and I don't think TK is some kind of Oracle mess= iah either. 3 reasons: >=20 > 1. I've been to some of his so called presentations and he came across as= having the personality of a rock. I was unimpressed. This is also true of = some of the high profile authors who the sheeple also admire and adore. >=20 > 2. A couple of years ago he agreed to participate in a 'performance tunin= g US tour' where the participants were billed as "performance rock stars". = Seriously? I've been an Oracle DBA for 20+ years, do not consider myself an= "expert" in any way and just try to do my best and be the best DBA I can b= e in my daily work. If I'd been approached with this gig, my response would= have been, "No. That's extremely embarrassing and comes across as being un= believably arrogant. Bad idea. Try again". TK and two of his buddies signed= up and off they went on their jolly around the US. I didn't attend. >=20 > 3. From time to time I have scanned TK's AskTom thing and I find many of = his answers to be quite rude and condescending. That said, much of what I'v= e seen is posted by people who very obviously have not read the documentati= on or even tried to figure it out for themselves. I'm sure TK gets frustrat= ed with this and some of his replies reflect that. However, the sheeple's l= azy incompetence is what fuels the ego and status of people like TK. >=20 > I reserve an ounce of respect for TK on the basis I read somewhere that a= lthough he comes across as all knowing in his AskTom blog thing, he never m= akes any mention of how long it took him (or others) to arrive at a complet= e, correct and definitive answer. Fair enough. >=20 > Bottom line, the Oracle world just like many walks of life, will always a= ttract some who will seek to raise their profile because they want to be se= en as leaders, the cream-of-the-crop, the A-Listers, whatever you want to c= all them. Equally there will be a section of the peasant class who'll hang = on their every word and defend them to the death (ala the replies to Geoman= cer's 'heretical' post). I have little time for either group and prefer to = be my own 'expert' (for want of a better word).=20 >=20 > Just don't get me started on the elitist Oak Table crowd of the annual 'l= ove-in' known as Open World. ;-) >=20 > Peace out, > Steve. You do realize this thread is a dozen years old? I would add, before this thread I had seen him sitting on a hallway floor a= t a conference, cranking out answers to asktom. I've also met him personally in the distant past, again at conferences, and= he is direct and personable. I think what people perceive as rudeness is = simply the old-skool hardcore programmer ethic, where your worth is judged = on your technical prowess. Also, he has said (again, this is long ago) he = enjoys going into meetings with skeptical devs (imagine a pre-sales governm= ent group with a bias towards MS) and explaining all their technical object= ions. You really, really have to know your stuff to do that, people will r= ip you to shreds if you don't. Now, maybe things have changed, it's been a while since I've gone to a big = conference. After one too many top-ten lists, they all started to sound th= e same. But that's just me, I still encourage most anyone to go to these l= arge conferences, meet these people, and learn lots of stuff. You don't ha= ve to drink the kool-aid, most of the top people appreciate a good technica= l deconstruction. =20 Look on twitter - yes, these people tend to be one big love-fest, but again= , if you have a viable criticism, most will appreciate the chance to either= learn something or explain it. And that's why I've always been a big Tom fan - we doesn't just say it, he = gives reproducible demos, where you can try it yourself, and mod it if you = think something is wrong, so we can all learn. Same with Richard Foote and= plenty of others. That's the magic. I'm with you on some of the Oakies, having borne the brunt of some unfair a= buse, but most of them are actually worthy of the title. We're all people,= with all the cliquishness and other failings that implies. I can understand being put off by Oracle's marketeering - I feel that way m= yself. But then again, it can be fun to immerse in the silliness, if only = for the chance to get up close to Berlin or whomever. The "Public Platform" argument is pretty hollow these days. Anyone can blo= g, tweet, make themselves into the Foole if they want. Pretty much the onl= y limitation is spending enough time working so you don't get fired. jg --=20 @home.com is bogus. If you want some interesting non-Kool-Aid, check out Kevin Closson's tweets= .