Re: The demise of the Oracle professional?

In article <20020610220211.15040.00000164_at_mb-cv.aol.com>, you said (and I quote):

> I guess I just don't understand why the negativity towards Java.

None. It's the combination of Java and J2EE that is deranged.

> Java is a nice language. It is intuitive. It beets the heck out of C. Come
> on, which one of you hear would rather code in Pro*C or M$'s ODBC than JDBC?

Oh, I dispute that Java is easier to learn than C. C++, most definitely. But not C. As for Pro*C and its complexity, it's all relative.

I'd rather code in C+OCI than waste time trying to figure out how to optimize a JDBC pooled connection in a stateless and/or statefull EJB. Or discerning the intricacies of a DAO that needs to be accessed in multiple environments and combinations of EJB. Or trying to make an EJB truly shareable between applications. Small details, but if J2EE is to deliver on its unrealistic promises these are ABSOLUTELY fundamental.

I can guarantee you that the C+OCI code will be at the very least one order of magnitude more efficient and as easy as or more to maintain. Particularly if I don't re-invent the wheel and just re-use one of the many, many libraries around to ease the development.

>
> I hear Java attacked, or at least J2EE, as if it somehow encroaches on what
> should be done, or only be done in the database. But that has to do with
> programmers not knowing good design.

It most definitely does. And it sure has to do with those programmers.

It has to do with a deranged group of individuals who push a technology for the sake of the technology. With COMPLETE disregard for the MOST BASIC principles of the well defined and very well formalised discipline of data management.

These principles are completely ignored under the fallacy that somehow they are supposed to be wrong because they are "proprietary".

It's got NOTHING to do with who owns the database engine and ALL to do with very basic principles of IT data management design. Well established and mathematically formalised. And INTENTIONALLY ignored by this mob.

> If they are doing things with Beans and
> JSP code that should be done in the database, that is their failing, and
> perhaps the job of the overall designer to make sure people aren't doing
> foolish things. So spank them royally at the next meeting!

Don't worry, I do. But it's an uphill battle when these people have management in their pockets and Sun behind them with an army of "experts" questioning EVERY SINGLE statement that is made.

Funny: no one seems to question a SINGLE statement of what they say.

I wonder why: the most BASIC principles of technical argumentation would at least require an equal measure of skepticism, no?

> Is it because
> these J2 programmers don't consult with the Oracle DBA to choose the best
> approach?

No, not at all.

It's because these J2 programmers are put in charge of design of systems they don't have the foggiest idea how to approach. About which they utter the most incredible common-place theories, completely out of context.

Because these self-appointed "designers" think that IT reduces itself to the "shopping cart" metaphor. And are completely unable to even fathom that for example an accounting system is oh!-so-very-slightly more complicated in its interactions.

Because these "illuminated" gurus can't discern the very simple principle of proximity of code to its data source and why it was established MORE THAN 20 YEARS AGO why it was such a desirable.

And because technically inept management has been sold on this architecture by Sun&Co. Who don't give a rat's ass provided they get to sell more hardware.

> I really don't see where the contention is, and perhaps it is
> because I wear both hats at my job: app developer and DBA.

So do I. And I don't like it one bit, when I have to sit on interminable meetings discussing ABSOLUTELY childish logic and lines of argumentation. Which were old-hat 25 years ago when I started in this business.

It's a bloody waste of time. Which IMO is the most common characteristic of all this J2EE rigmarole.

Of course IMHO, YMMV, no-animals-were-hurt-testing-this-product, etcetc. ;-)

-- 
Cheers
Nuno Souto
nsouto_at_optushome.com.au.nospam