Re: Chubb Institute for Training

customer_at_asgardfinancial.com (mark davis) wrote in message news:<e0366c3c.0311032154.3232e7f6_at_posting.google.com>...
> Daniel Morgan <damorgan_at_x.washington.edu> wrote in message news:<1067885687.540557_at_yasure>...
> > Ryan Gaffuri wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >another thing to point out. Its hard to believe how cheap your courses
> > >are. $650 for 10 weeks? Most private companies charge $2000-3000 for
> > >lousy entry level courses. Oracle charges $500/day(and their stuff is
> > >not always that good).

Someone (from Oregon, IIRC) recently posted on the sdoug list a trip to Oracle U in Bangalore. I just lauged and deleted it thinking "spam," then I thought, well, not spam, since it doesn't violate that list TOS (IIRC). Wondered if other lists are getting this and if it is on the up-and-up? It was like a grand plus airfare. I was almost tempted to post it here verbatim as a troll.

> > >
> > >find someone to teach it out in northern virginia and Ill take it.
> > >Dont think you will get any takers. The schools out here charge
> > >several times that for their entry level stuff.
> > >
> > >
> > Only place I might be able to swing it would be at UVA in
> > Charlottesville. I get in there several
> > times a year. Is that close enough?
> >
> > --
> > Daniel Morgan
> > http://www.outreach.washington.edu/ext/certificates/oad/oad_crs.asp
> > http://www.outreach.washington.edu/ext/certificates/aoa/aoa_crs.asp
> > damorgan_at_x.washington.edu
> > (replace 'x' with a 'u' to reply)
> >
> >
> > --
> Number One I never quoted the cost of the program
>
> As far as what Ryan is saying you seem to think Chubb is 'stealing' my
> money.They didnt sure, I realize when I first went to the campus and
> interviewd I was given a 'sales pitch' all schools including
> Universities give a sales pitch. I took the materials given to me and
> check 4 other schools including major university. They all offer the
> same courses. I also asked each and everyone of them about experience
> level bfore taking the Oracle courses,they all stated take the courses
> and become certified. They all stated it would be difficult in todays
> economy to find entry level dba work but it could and has been done. I
> selected Chubb because of location and scheduling.Tonite I spoke with
> the instructor who is an OCM about what you stated. He advise me to
> continue with forms and get training on Unix. However, he strongly
> advised me to get certified.

Well, of course he did, he has to justify his OCM to himself, and if you think about it, it probably got him his job teaching certs. Whether that is circular logic is left as an exercise for the student.

>
> Oracle states this on their website- The Oracle Certification Program
> begins with the Associate level. At this apprentice skill level,
> Oracle Associates have a foundation knowledge that will allow them to
> act as a junior team member working with database administrators or
> application developers. It sems to me that You dont have to have a lot
> of experience at this level or is ORACLE just not telling the truth.

Truthful as far as it goes, but in context, it is for Oracle to convince companies to pay corporate rates to Oracle.

>
> It's hard to believe that 5 schools in this area including a community
> college would bring in students into it's DBA program and just take
> their money. It would seem on the face of it to invite a class action
> lawsuit.There are entry
> level opportunities out there it may be more difficult now to find
> them but they do exist. It takes more then posting your resume 0nline
> or with recruiters it takes work(phone
> calls,networking,followup,persistence).

Believe it. What class action lawsuit, they are very careful not to make any guarantees (well, some do, but they tend to get closed down and students are then TSOL). People sometimes ask me about where they can get entry-level opportunities, and I have to honestly say I don't know. I see people get dropped into the DBA role all the time with no formal training, which just goes to show it ain't what you know, it ain't who you know, it's where you are when. Of course, I'm not familiar with places that don't hire me because they found someone else formally trained, so I could have a skewed view. I am certified, but it hasn't seemed to make any difference, as it didn't before I was certified.

>
> These are the things that will get me the opportunity. I wish you
> would stop slamming Chubb since you never attended a class,I have been
> to a 4 year school set in an auditorium of 200 students and those
> professors never gave a damn about me. At least at Chubb with a class
> size of 4 students they have answered evry question I have asked and
> challenged me to do my best.

I went through a Chubb-style school right after I dropped out of law school, and it did good for me. It is no longer in business, how about that. I could see the difference in how I was taught vs. those out of some other mills, so I agree that one can't slam any particular program without knowing about it. Later I went through UCLA's program (in the '80s), and it also did me good. Some of the good was useful stuff actually taught, some was seeing how wrong a professor can be, some was sharing experience, some was simply being able to say "see, I'm a go-getter, look at all these classes I've taken in addition to my experience." Note that last "in addition." I was doing DBA work for years before I was actually hired to do it as a job title. I no longer care so much about titles.

>
> If you are reading this Mr Morgan would you be so kind as to advised
> me on what developers book using forms I could read and on pl/sql
> none of the schools here offer courses as indepth as yours :) secondly
> should I be reading the online documentation at Tahiti? If so which
> ones. thanks in advance

Half the job is knowing where to look in the manuals for any specific problem, so be familiar with everything that is there, and especially how to probe metalink and all the other resources.

>
> In this world it so easy to be negative,if what you say is true Ryan
> then it is a SAD world we live in. However, I belive there are
> companies out there who will train you at an entry level position just
> gotta find 'em

Over my career, I've seen that sadness increase. Everyone knows that training is a benefit that works both ways, but business is business and cost rules. I see places under-staffed, that know they should cross-train, but barely train anyone because they know that person will then leave, and there is no time to train anyways. I've also seen an interesting cross-purpose between HR and IS: IS wants specific skills, catbert in HR doesn't know jack about the skills but needs to justify existence by winnowing, um, "professionalism," whatever that is. So who is presented to the decision maker isn't based on ability or cert, but rather who presents best. Except maybe for network admins, the scarce-resource-of-the-week. Well, maybe even them, when someone goes "gee, do I want to be responsible for when the CEO comes in and finds this geek sitting at his big desk playing with his computer?"

jg

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