Re: SQL to extract and evaluate rows from multiple child rows and1 parent. (OT)

Mark Townsend wrote:

> in article 3E41AC8D.A894205F_at_exesolutions.com, DA Morgan at
> damorgan_at_exesolutions.com wrote on 2/5/03 4:30 PM:
>
> > As an instructor I appeal to you to please not do student's homework for them.
> >
> > It isn't fair to the instructors, it isn't fair to the other students, and it
> > isn't even fair to the person you are helping.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Daniel Morgan
>
> You know, as a parent of two children that are particulary internet savvy, I
> don't understand this attitude - we get feedback from their school all the
> time about their use of the Internet for projects etc. I simply don't
> understand this.
>
> Why isn't getting the answer from any available resource OK. Surely the
> biggest part of 'learning' is knowing how to use the resources available to
> you to get an answer to a question ? And we all use this as a resource in
> our prefessional lives anyhow - so why shouldn't a student ?
>
> Obviously, any information recieved has to be checked - but to me, that's an
> important thing to learn to do as well. Even 'respected' sources should be
> questioned and verified. And as long as the source is cited in the final
> answer, what's the actual problem ?
>
> I say bring it on - it is the information age, after all :-)
>
> By the same token, I also admitt to being a little extreme in these views.
> One teacher kicked back my son's work because of handwriting - but at the
> same time, refused to let him submit an electronic version. I don't know
> about you, but the only thing close to writing I do nowadays are scrawls on
> my PDA - and that's not even writing. Teach them to type first, I say.

Because passing a class in SQL or PL/SQL or Oracle involves teaching people not just to parrot syntax ... but to think; to problem solve. When I give a midterm or a final I grade each student individually on their ability to take a word problem, translate it into pseudocode and then write a working statement, procedure, function, trigger, whatever. I also grade those in the class in comparison to the range of answers. And most importantly I grade myself based on how well I have communicated the material.

When someone goes to the internet and gets answers to history or biology questions the point is learning how to perform research and learn the information. Teacher's refer students for purposes of research not plagiarism. If one of your children were to turn in homework that consisted of nothing more than google.com followed by Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V you'd soon here about it (or at least as a parent I'd certainly hope so).

In the case of a student asking someone here such as you, or me, or Karsen, or Howard, etc. to provide the answer the end result is that the student learns nothing, other students can be penalized, the instructor is unable to evaluate what is being communicated. And, at its most basic level, it is a violation of an honor code that must exist for school to be places of education rather than high priced baby-sitters.

I know honor, integrity, and ethics are somewhat out of fashion ... but I feel that I put my reputation, and the reputation of the University of Washington on the line every time I give a student a passing grade and they graduate. If they go out into the real world, using me as a reference or their certificate as a credential to obtain a job ... if they can't do that job it reflects on me and it reflects on the school.

In spite of Dave's protests to the contrary I've seen the material from which his question originated (or he is unfortunate enough to be trying to solve a textbook problem) and don't buy that he has already modified the code given to him by Karsten and will within less than 24 hours run it in a production environment (truly a scary thought and if true it is a good thing I'm not the production DBA).

So the short version of what has turned into a very long answer ... is that I care a lot as do other instructors. I send my students to tahiti.oracle.com, I send them to asktom.oracle.com, I send them all over the internet for study support and research. I even encourage them to use these resources, class notes, class web site, and books when taking tests. But that is far different from passing exam questions to you or me or Tom and asking us to do their work. Does this make sense?

Daniel Morgan Received on Wed Feb 05 2003 - 23:24:26 CST