Re: Has anyone used the QuestSqlPlus Toad tool from Toadsoft?

jim wrote:
>
> "Sean M" wrote in message...
>
> > That said, I rarely use it. 9 times out of 10, I don't want or need a
> > GUI interfacet to Oracle. In a large production environment, I don't
> > find that a GUI client makes me any more efficient supporting databases
> > than good old telnet/ssh, SQL*Plus, and vi. Most of the time I simply
>
> Then maybe you'll appreciate 7.4 a bit more. We have a Unix Job manager
> which allows you to schedule/execute your ssh files without opening up
> telnet.

OK, you've made me curious, but I'm still a skeptic. How exactly does this new feature enable me to be more efficient than typing ssh <hostname> and crontab -e? Does your GUI interface to cron allow you to telnet/ssh in as a regular user, then msu to root or oracle and edit that user's cron entry? This process takes me all of about 10 seconds currently. I'm not sure why I need a GUI to be more efficient here, but I'm geniunely willing to hear the sales pitch.

And not everything I type is scripted - I don't always know what I need until I get there, so a lot of it is ad hoc. In a large production environment, I've found no substitute for telnet/ssh to get there, vi/grep/sed/awk/etc. for viewing/editing/searching/etc. log and config files, and sqlplus for answers to questions during my investigation. Like I said, TOAD is a great GUI tool, but a not-so-great command line tool. Even if you have reinvented the ssh/vi/grep/sqlplus/etc. wheels and included them in TOAD, I still probably wouldn't use it for my daily activities, since you'd almost certainly be behind a few versions here or there, or not support all functionality, not run on my Unix workstation, or simply cost more than what I already have for free without providing any improvements in efficiency, portability, and compatibility. Adding dependencies and complexities to an operation environment can be a dangerous road to travel.

> 7.4 will ship with about 60 shell scripts to perform db backup,
> export, coalesce, flush shared pool, force log switch, and several monitor
> scripts. The window also displays the results/times/status of the
> execution. And yes, you can add your own to the starter collection we
> provide. Since you already have TOAD, you can try that window out in the
> 7.4 beta and give any feedback if you still dont find it to your liking.

Again, how does this make me more efficient (assuming I'm not interested in your canned scripts)?

> > My take is that TOAD will probably never replace SQL*Plus in a large
> > operational environment. Enhance, maybe. Replace/kill? No. SQL*Plus
> > will never go away, just like vi will never go away. Why? Both are
>
> No, it wont go away. Not only for the reasons you give but some shops
> simply wont spend any money on development. "You have Sql*Plus and notepad
> so why whould we buy anything else?" I worked in one of those environments.
> Fortunately, I already had free TOAD in my hands.

My company has a decent IT budget. If I needed to buy TOAD, they'd pay for it. And if I was doing a lot of application development, I'd probably want TOAD. But for the majority of my day to day tasks, like I said, I've found that I don't use it because I'm more efficient without it. I doubt I'm alone in this respect.

Sql*plus won't go away because it is the best command-line interface to Oracle on the market. Any other command-line replacement utility will always be a step or two behind in functionality (e.g. according to your site TOAD 7.4 still doesn't fully support SET AUTOTRACE, and it only just now supports SET LINESIZE, which sqlplus has had for what, 15+ years now?), cost more, and not be available when you need it since it wasn't included in the default install.

I know all of this sounds very negative towards TOAD, but I'm really only talking about my own personal experiences. Like I said, I'm a fan of the product for DBA tasks that lend themselves to being done through a GUI. But a lot of DBA stuff is still more efficient in a command-line world, and I don't see the value TOAD adds here.

Regards,
Sean Received on Sat Aug 31 2002 - 16:08:23 CDT