Re: Why Microsoft certificates are only good as asswipes

"Daniel A. Morgan" <damorgan_at_exesolutions.com> wrote in message news:<3C4359AA.9D1C9C70_at_exesolutions.com>...
> My comments interspersed below:
>
> Daniel Morgan
>
> Joel Garry wrote:
>
> > "Daniel A. Morgan" <damorgan_at_exesolutions.com> wrote in message news:<3C3F049D.EA0E728B_at_exesolutions.com>...
> > > > (Jeff Cochran) wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >>If I was a hiring manager,I would give more weight to Linux / Comptia
> > > > >>type
> > > > >>exams than MS exams esp if the applicant has little or no experience.
> > > > >
> > > > > Perhaps that's one reaosn you're not a hiring manager... :)
> > > > >
> > > > >>At least the Linux dude knows basic stuff howeevr simple they may be
> > > > >
> > > > > All certification exams test a specific knowledge set. If that set
> > > > > doesn't fit with the organization doing the interview, the exams are
> > > > > irrelevant. I don't know any hiring manager that bases a hiring
> > > > > decision on certifications, of any kind. After all, I don't hire
> > > > > certifications, I hire people.
> >
> > Of course, try getting _to_ the hiring manager through the ring of HR
> > filters...
>
> Who goes through HR? And if so why? Go through friends ... go through recruiters ... go to restaurants and
> watering holes near the places of work. But HR is not your friend.
>

I am trying to think if I've ever gotten a job through HR... I don't think so. However, I'm pretty sure they got the recruiters involved in most cases. But the problem is, how do you network with the hiring managers if you or they don't go to watering holes? Certainly many IT managers I've known have no lives. Many jobs I've gotten through consulting firms, I just show up one day, no interviews or anything. An interesting contracting technique, methinks. There is no probation period or anything, just prove you can do it to the manager. I've also had to clean up after messes... lots of messes...

One view is, that's what you pay headhunters for - to schmooze.

> >
> >
> > And of course, many organizations _do_ hire certifications. In some
> > cases, to their detriment.
>
> Not to the best of my knowledge in this part of the US (Redmond, Bellevue, Seattle, Portland)

In fact, my current contract was put in with a bunch of Boeing stuff (I'm in SoCal and have nothing to do with Boeing), and I've personally seen large aerospace and government contract where they need the certs to hire. I've seen some very stupid stuff. I think I'm the only one left out of that Boeing group... I dunno, the company is in a third state, they laid off my boss and his boss, and I've never even met my new boss. Didn't even know about it for a month, just thought people had other more important issues after 9/11...

>
> >
> >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > That's true. You just have to be a good judge of character.
> >
> > Man, with all the homo-necrophiliac child molesters out there, I
> > really wonder how many people are good judges of character. Actually,
> > I don't wonder, because I'm married to a clinical psychologist who's
> > been specially trained to spot lying and denial, and even she gets
> > bamboozled at times. In fact, the better liars can fool anyone. Even
> > machines. At the extreme, even themselves.
>
> If liars got caught ... there wouldn't be any. Case closed.

Case closed that most people aren't as good character judges as they think. How 'bout that racial profiling, eh?

>
> >
> >
> > > > I wonder how many companies out there that got bitten bad by someone that
> > > > has lied on their resume?? Just curious.
> > >
> > > All of them. A resume' is a marketing and public relations document. Not a
> > > sworn historical document.
> >
> > Actually, most companies these days tell you they will fire you if
> > they discover you've lied on an application or resume. When it comes
> > out in the media, they do fire you.
>
> Of course they will. But they don't except in egregious cases. Because, after all, they won't even know you work
> there if you don't bring attention on yourself.

Ah, the bubble-up theory. Does not work in places with an aggressive management culture. That is, they don't think you are doing well unless you aggressively market yourself.

>
> >
> >
> > >
> > > And references are equally valuable.
> > >
> > > The only thing that matters is a good technical interview by someone that
> > > knows enough to detect B.S.
> >
> > I've had a few interviews go wrong because the interviewer suffered
> > from the incompetence paradox - he wouldn't believe me because he
> > didn't know enough. So he thinks I'm BS'ing when I'm not. That
> > really torques me off.
>
> Or maybe the interviewer knew enough to see you as a threat.

I just don't understand why people see me as a threat. I'm a database geek, I don't want _their_ jobs. But it is all too true, especially with new managers.

BS detectors are not reliable.

jg

--
I did lose a job once because the strategic planner set off my BS
detector and I said something about it.  But so did everyone else, not
long after...