Subject: Re: Learn Cloud or Do Oracle OCM ..confused
To: Vishnu Potukanuma <vishnupotukanuma@gmail.com>
Cc: oracle-l@freelists.org
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 <CAP-RywwNU4WeS-1Kr5oWS3tWFffcqM7MOFncZVDqt_KsK-OEoQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2a02208a-b892-3d95-0dbd-a5c21ba7c3df@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2019 22:51:50 -0400
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I am a bitter opponent of the certifications. I was Oracle OCA for 
Oracle 8i and 9i. I felt sick in my stomach when doing those 
certification exams. Those certifications require essentially the same 
skill as was required to learn poems in school: listen my children and 
you shall hear about the midnight ride of Paul Revere....A beautiful 
poem, though.

What certification process does not teach is the understanding of the 
different components. I have interviewed certified DBA people who 
haven't understood the tuning process. In particular, I asked the 
following question: users of a particular application start complaining 
that the application response is slow. What do you do? The most frequent 
and completely inaccurate answer was "i run AWR report". Some of the 
interviewed folks didn't know what gc 2-way waits are and how to avoid 
them. And if you go a bit out of the Oracle universe and ask for the 
difference between a PC and a mini computer or why would you need an HBA 
with iSCSI, there is a fair amount of blank stares or tries to rephrase 
the question and offer it as an answer. Such blatantly rude tactics 
immediately get under my skin. There are cases of OCP who know only 
Oracle SQL and only on Windows. Until approximately 5 years ago, one of 
my regular questions was the one about the airspeed velocity of an 
unladen swallow. However, recent candidates have not watched mandatory 
classics like MP & Holly Grail, Life of Brian, Dr. Strangelove or 
Apocalypse Now. Strange as it may sound, some of them haven't even seen 
The Animal House. My questions are out of date and can only be answered 
by the people 45 or older. I've said to a new DBA that she's now under 
double secret probation and she asked me what is that? Until very 
recently, the understanding of the references like that revealed certain 
psychology type and belonging to certain group of people, usually known 
as "computer geeks" of which I am a proud member.  No certification 
guarantees of overall good understanding of IT technology.  One of my 
newer questions is: how will you find out who is doing the most of IO on 
your DB server? The first answer is usually a query to V$SESSTAT, which 
will not catch a botched Perl script or a security product which 
continually checks file flags. ClamAV anyone? What a reply like this 
tells me is that the user doesn't understand the overall IT technology 
and is problematic, despite a certification. I prefer good references 
and experiences on the resume to certification.

On 10/27/19 9:48 PM, Vishnu Potukanuma wrote:
> A certification will definitely help and will elevate your carrier as 
> well... especially OCM.. and the employment prospects are high 
> provided that your resume makes it till the technical panel ..
> The irony is in reality most recruiters/managers who filter the 
> resumes doesn't care or know about what is OCM.. in few cases they 
> thought OCP is higher....
>
> I see that you are an Oracle performance DBA in your current role.. 
> explore this area to the fullest means possible... Oracle DBAs 
> specialising in performance tuning are a rare breed and you wont find 
> many in the market and the actual filtering ratio will be 200/300:1 to 
> find a good performance tuning DBA who knows stuff apart from the 
> fundamentals and we had to struggle a lot each time a DBA would go out 
> of the team and it took us approximately 3 months to find the right 
> resource. I would recommend you to focus all your attention in Cloud / 
> Performance tuning for now and prepare for OCM in your part time.
>
> it hardly takes 2 months to finish preparing and practicing for OCM 
> especially if you follow the schedule properly take a topic a day 
> (probably an hour or two) and try to finish it and practice it the 
> alternate day... Its a tough exam but it is real easy! but earning the 
> certification is different from living up to the expectations.
>
> Thanks,
> Vishnusivathej
> Oracle 11g/12c OCM
>
> On Sun, Oct 27, 2019 at 2:36 AM Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen@gmail.com 
> <mailto:gogala.mladen@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     On 10/26/19 9:51 AM, kunwar singh wrote
>
>>     Hi all,
>>
>>     What would be more beneficial in the long term in your opinion?
>>
>>
>>     Oracle OCM certification (and things learned during its time
>>     preparation ) or learning cloud .
>>
>>     I don’t want to do both as don’t get much free time and want to
>>     gain expert level knowledge so that I am gainfully employed for
>>     next 5 years or so .
>>
>>     I am oracle performance dba in my current role .
>>
>>     So looking for insights on what community members here think .
>>
>>
>>     I am interested in both , but thinking what value OCM will hold
>>     with all the cloud focus these days . In my job I am getting
>>     chance to play with python , so atleast I am learning a new skill
>>     currently too.
>>
>>
>>     Rgds,
>>
>>     Kunwar
>>
>>     -- 
>>     Cheers,
>>     Kunwar
>
>
>     Hi Kunwar!
>
>     Why not both? You can become an Oracle Cloud Master, OCM for
>     short. In other words, you could become a genuine Oracle rain man.
>
>     Regards
>
>
>
>     -- 
>     Mladen Gogala
>     Database Consultant
>     Tel: (347) 321-1217
>
-- 
Mladen Gogala
Database Consultant
Tel: (347) 321-1217


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    <p>I am a bitter opponent of the certifications. I was Oracle OCA
      for Oracle 8i and 9i. I felt sick in my stomach when doing those
      certification exams. Those certifications require essentially the
      same skill as was required to learn poems in school: listen my
      children and you shall hear about the midnight ride of Paul
      Revere....A beautiful poem, though.<br>
    </p>
    <p>What certification process does not teach is the understanding of
      the different components. I have interviewed certified DBA people
      who haven't understood the tuning process. In particular, I asked
      the following question: users of a particular application start
      complaining that the application response is slow. What do you do?
      The most frequent and completely inaccurate answer was "i run AWR
      report". Some of the interviewed folks didn't know what gc 2-way
      waits are and how to avoid them. And if you go a bit out of the
      Oracle universe and ask for the difference between a PC and a mini
      computer or why would you need an HBA with iSCSI, there is a fair
      amount of blank stares or tries to rephrase the question and offer
      it as an answer. Such blatantly rude tactics immediately get under
      my skin. There are cases of OCP who know only Oracle SQL and only
      on Windows. Until approximately 5 years ago, one of my regular
      questions was the one about the airspeed velocity of an unladen
      swallow. However, recent candidates have not watched mandatory
      classics like MP &amp; Holly Grail, Life of Brian, Dr. Strangelove
      or Apocalypse Now. Strange as it may sound, some of them haven't
      even seen The Animal House. My questions are out of date and can
      only be answered by the people 45 or older. I've said to a new DBA
      that she's now under double secret probation and she asked me what
      is that? Until very recently, the understanding of the references
      like that revealed certain psychology type and belonging to
      certain group of people, usually known as "computer geeks" of
      which I am a proud member.  No certification guarantees of overall
      good understanding of IT technology.  One of my newer questions
      is: how will you find out who is doing the most of IO on your DB
      server? The first answer is usually a query to V$SESSTAT, which
      will not catch a botched Perl script or a security product which
      continually checks file flags. ClamAV anyone? What a reply like
      this tells me is that the user doesn't understand the overall IT
      technology and is problematic, despite a certification. I prefer
      good references and experiences on the resume to certification.<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/27/19 9:48 PM, Vishnu Potukanuma
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAP-RywwNU4WeS-1Kr5oWS3tWFffcqM7MOFncZVDqt_KsK-OEoQ@mail.gmail.com">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div>A certification will definitely help and will elevate your
          carrier as well... especially OCM.. and the employment
          prospects are high provided that your resume makes it till the
          technical panel ..</div>
        <div>The irony is in reality most recruiters/managers who filter
          the resumes doesn't care or know about what is OCM.. in few
          cases they thought OCP is higher.... </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>I see that you are an Oracle performance DBA in your
          current role.. explore this area to the fullest means
          possible... Oracle DBAs specialising in performance tuning are
          a rare breed and you wont find many in the market and the
          actual filtering ratio will be 200/300:1 to find a good
          performance tuning DBA who knows stuff apart from the
          fundamentals and we had to struggle a lot each time a DBA
          would go out of the team and it took us approximately 3 months
          to find the right resource. I would recommend you to focus all
          your attention in Cloud / Performance tuning for now and
          prepare for OCM in your part time. </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>it hardly takes 2 months to finish preparing and practicing
          for OCM especially if you follow the schedule properly take a
          topic a day (probably an hour or two) and try to finish it and
          practice it the alternate day... Its a tough exam but it is
          real easy! but earning the certification is different from
          living up to the expectations.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Thanks,</div>
        <div>Vishnusivathej </div>
        <div>Oracle 11g/12c OCM</div>
        <br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">
          <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Oct 27, 2019 at 2:36
            AM Mladen Gogala &lt;<a
              href="mailto:gogala.mladen@gmail.com"
              moz-do-not-send="true">gogala.mladen@gmail.com</a>&gt;
            wrote:<br>
          </div>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
            0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
            rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
            <div>
              <p>On 10/26/19 9:51 AM, kunwar singh wrote<br>
              </p>
              <blockquote type="cite">
                <p
style="margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:17px;line-height:normal;color:rgb(69,69,69)"><span
                    style="font-weight:bold">Hi all,</span></p>
                <p
style="margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:17px;line-height:normal;color:rgb(69,69,69)"><span>What
                    would be more beneficial in the long term in your
                    opinion?</span></p>
                <p
style="margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:17px;line-height:normal;color:rgb(69,69,69)"><span><br>
                  </span></p>
                <p
style="margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:17px;line-height:normal;color:rgb(69,69,69)"><span>Oracle
                    OCM certification (and things learned during its
                    time preparation ) or learning cloud .</span></p>
                <p
style="margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:17px;line-height:normal;color:rgb(69,69,69)"><span>I
                    don’t want to do both as don’t get much free time
                    and want to gain expert level knowledge so that I am
                    gainfully employed for next 5 years or so . </span></p>
                <p
style="margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:17px;line-height:normal;color:rgb(69,69,69)"><span>I
                    am oracle performance dba in my current role .</span></p>
                <p
style="margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:17px;line-height:normal;color:rgb(69,69,69)"><span>So
                    looking for insights on what community members here
                    think .</span></p>
                <p
style="margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:17px;line-height:normal;color:rgb(69,69,69)"><span><br>
                  </span></p>
                <p
style="margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:17px;line-height:normal;color:rgb(69,69,69)"><span>I
                    am interested in both , but thinking what value OCM
                    will hold with all the cloud focus these days . In
                    my job I am getting chance to play with python , so
                    atleast I am learning a new skill currently too.</span></p>
                <p
style="margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:17px;line-height:normal;color:rgb(69,69,69)"><span><br>
                  </span></p>
                <p
style="margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:17px;line-height:normal;color:rgb(69,69,69)"><span>Rgds,</span></p>
                <div dir="auto">Kunwar</div>
                <div dir="auto"><br>
                </div>
                -- <br>
                <div dir="ltr">Cheers,<br>
                  Kunwar</div>
              </blockquote>
              <p><br>
              </p>
              <p>Hi Kunwar!</p>
              <p>Why not both? You can become an Oracle Cloud Master,
                OCM for short. In other words, you could become a
                genuine Oracle rain man.</p>
              <p>Regards<br>
              </p>
              <p><br>
              </p>
              <p><br>
              </p>
              <pre cols="72">-- 
Mladen Gogala
Database Consultant
Tel: (347) 321-1217
</pre>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Mladen Gogala
Database Consultant
Tel: (347) 321-1217
</pre>
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