Return-Path: X-Original-To: oracle-l@orafaq.com Delivered-To: oracle-l@orafaq.com Received: from puck1183.startdedicated.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by puck1183.startdedicated.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28149196104B for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2016 19:38:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from turing.freelists.org (freelists-180.iquest.net [206.53.239.180]) by puck1183.startdedicated.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2016 19:38:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 4970F31CF7; Tue, 2 Feb 2016 13:38:00 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at turing.freelists.org Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3bFYdPFtr458; Tue, 2 Feb 2016 13:38:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3B9B331E39; Tue, 2 Feb 2016 13:37:19 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list oracle-l); Tue, 02 Feb 2016 13:36:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 1C35831BD8 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2016 13:36:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XkQrO4NTG4nC for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2016 13:36:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from p3plsmtpa08-05.prod.phx3.secureserver.net (p3plsmtpa08-05.prod.phx3.secureserver.net [173.201.193.106]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTPS id 5F11631BCF for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2016 13:36:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from Tim-MBP.local ([184.96.135.54]) by p3plsmtpa08-05.prod.phx3.secureserver.net with id DWcZ1s0061AbNj401WcaTW; Tue, 02 Feb 2016 11:36:36 -0700 Subject: Re: Anyone with experience with the Oracle Data Appliance/ODA? References: <0D8F4CAC0F9D3C4AACC63F50FD9957F75457CBF0@PRDCTWPEMLMB31.prod-am.ameritrade.com> <9AC8C8EE-7604-4A76-B047-52646E10BD2B@gmail.com> <56ABCDD6.3090502@gmail.com> <56AC3F1B.7050604@tpg.com.au> <56AE996B.7040207@tpg.com.au> <2c01b202-429c-4a58-a988-b28393b52e01@default> <56B092B7.3020702@tpg.com.au> To: pete.sharman@oracle.com, dedba@tpg.com.au, Seth Miller Cc: Oracle Discussion List From: Tim Gorman Organization: EvDBT Message-ID: <56B0F730.2070201@evdbt.com> Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2016 11:36:32 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------080108050901080108040100" X-archive-position: 63266 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: tim@evdbt.com Precedence: normal Reply-To: tim@evdbt.com List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: oracle-l X-List-ID: oracle-l List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: oracle-l --------------080108050901080108040100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit FWIW, Delphix does everything that Oracle SnapClone does and more, without any Oracle licensing (except EE) or hardware prerequisites. Sorry, had to say something here... :) On 2/2/16 10:36, Peter Sharman wrote: > > Snap Clone is part of the Cloud Management pack, which has the DBLM > pack as a prerequisite. > > Pete > > Oracle logo > > Pete Sharman > Database Architect, DBaaS / DBLM > Enterprise Manager Product Suite > 33 Benson Crescent CALWELL ACT 2905 AUSTRALIA > > Phone: +61262924095 | | Mobile: _+61414443449_ > Email: pete.sharman@oracle.com > Twitter: @SharmanPete LinkedIn: au.linkedin.com/in/petesharman > Website: petewhodidnottweet.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > "Controlling developers is like herding cats." > > Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook > > "Oh no, it's not, it's much harder than that!" > > Bruce Pihlamae, long term Oracle DBA > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:*De DBA [mailto:dedba@tpg.com.au] > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 2, 2016 10:28 PM > *To:* Peter Sharman ; Seth Miller > > *Cc:* Oracle Discussion List > *Subject:* Re: Anyone with experience with the Oracle Data Appliance/ODA? > > Thanks Pete. > > I've now seen the ODA. The database is version 11.2.0.4. The data > files are stored in ASM disk groups, not on ACFS mounts. I am not sure > if it is still possible to create snapshots with oakcli in this situation? > > Is the snap clone functionality in EM/Cloud Control licensed with any > optional pack? It sounds promising.. there is not much disk space left > on the array, so a thin clone is preferable ;-) > > Cheers, > Tony > > On 2/02/2016 12:45 pm, Peter Sharman wrote: > > Tony > > I don’t think I saw anything about database versions in the > thread, so there are a couple of other options you could use > depending on the version: > > ·If the DB is 12c, there is snapshotting capability built into the > database itself > > ·From DB 10g onwards you could look at using Enterprise Manager’s > Snap Clone functionality which uses copy on write technology to > build thin clones, optionally including masking as well. This may > make it easier for you to do the snapshotting as its built into > the product, which makes it less error prone than a manual > snapshotting process. > > Let me know if you need any more details on that. > > Pete > > Oracle logo > > Pete Sharman > Database Architect, DBaaS / DBLM > Enterprise Manager Product Suite > 33 Benson Crescent CALWELL ACT 2905 AUSTRALIA > > Phone: +61262924095 | | Mobile: _+61414443449_ > Email: pete.sharman@oracle.com > Twitter: @SharmanPete LinkedIn: au.linkedin.com/in/petesharman > Website: petewhodidnottweet.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > "Controlling developers is like herding cats." > > Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook > > "Oh no, it's not, it's much harder than that!" > > Bruce Pihlamae, long term Oracle DBA > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:*De DBA [mailto:dedba@tpg.com.au] > *Sent:* Monday, February 1, 2016 10:32 AM > *To:* Seth Miller > > *Cc:* Oracle Discussion List > > *Subject:* Re: Anyone with experience with the Oracle Data > Appliance/ODA? > > Seth, > > Thanks for that. I haven't got access to the systems yet, just > reading up and preparing for the shock.. > > You will not find OCFS on the ODA. It uses ACFS for the cluster > file system as well as the database files. > > Ah, yes, of course, it's on ASM... I understand that oakcli will > create & manage fs automatically, but I'm not going to have RAC. > One node is supposed to be production, whereas the other node will > run dev, test and UAT. I will need to refresh the dev & test > databases from production, and wonder whether I can create a > snapshot, do the masking etc. and then mount the copy on the other > node where it will then be used as the gold copy for the refreshes. > > get yourself a couple of excellent books. > > Practical Oracle Database Appliance > > > Oracle Database Appliance: A Hands-On Guide > > > > I did look at the first one, which has some famous names amongst > the authors. One of the reviews that I saw mentions that it is > somewhat dated? Is it still worthwhile getting even if you work > with the latest hard/software? > > Cheers, > Tony > > On 31/01/2016 2:45 pm, Seth Miller wrote: > > Tony, > > The ODAs apparently are each set up as two stand-alone servers > with shared storage. I understand that one needs to use oakcli > to create databases and that this tool hides pretty much all > functionality that we are used to through dbca etc. > > Yes, oakcli is the magic behind ODA but it does not preclude > you from using DBCA. If you need to create a database that > does not fall into one of the oakcli templates, feel free to > use DBCA or any other classic method. > > But what does it do exactly? > > Oakcli is nothing more than a bunch of very well written perl > and shell scripts that wrap the classic tools included with > the Oracle database software. They are easy to find and read > if you really want to know what they are doing. > > How does one manage the OCFS? > > You will not find OCFS on the ODA. It uses ACFS for the > cluster file system as well as the database files. > > Can a file system be mounted on both nodes, or just on one? Is > this automatic? > > Oakcli will take care of this for you. > > Given a complete backup (... which is a problem all of its > own...), how does one restore a database? > > Use RMAN or Enterprise Manager for this. There will be little > difference from a standard RAC database in how you backup and > restore a database. > > Don't use centralised wallets with TDE, otherwise problems > will arise -- but what does that even mean? > > This isn't specific to the ODA. There are a number of reasons > to have local wallets in RAC -- one of the most important > being that you can't have a local only autologin wallet if it > is shared with multiple nodes. > > You will find little argument that the documentation for ODA > is mediocre at best. This is why a number of training > companies (including the one I teach for) have developed their > own content for the ODA. I think your best course of action, > though, is to get yourself a couple of excellent books. > > Practical Oracle Database Appliance > > > Oracle Database Appliance: A Hands-On Guide > > > Seth Miller > > On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 10:42 PM, De DBA > wrote: > > I've just read through that documentation, as I will > shortly get the responsibility for 2 ODA's. I would not > classify the 3 software manuals and 2 hw manuals as good > documentation. After reading all of it, I've got more > questions than what I started out with... > > The ODAs apparently are each set up as two stand-alone > servers with shared storage. I understand that one needs > to use oakcli to create databases and that this tool hides > pretty much all functionality that we are used to through > dbca etc. But what does it do exactly? How does one manage > the OCFS? Can a file system be mounted on both nodes, or > just on one? Is this automatic? Given a complete backup > (... which is a problem all of its own...), how does one > restore a database? Don't use centralised wallets with > TDE, otherwise problems will arise -- but what does that > even mean? Questions... > > Pointers to more complete documentation/blogs/etc. > regarding managing and patching the ODA are very welcome! > > Cheers, > Tony > > On 30/01/2016 6:38 am, Hans Forbrich wrote: > > Yes, lack of documentation was a problem at one time. > > That has significantly improved. See > http://docs.oracle.com/en/engineered-systems/ > > /Hans > > On 29/01/2016 12:54 PM, Andrew Kerber wrote: > > I have run into problem with a lack of good > documentation on its use. > > Sent from my iPad > > > On Jan 29, 2016, at 1:49 PM, > > > > wrote: > > Hi > > We just attended an ODA presentation and it > looks very promising as a solution for our > non-prod testing environment as it would allow > us to clone multiple instances of the gold > copy test databases easily (without needing to > coordinate with other departments as we do > now) and apply patches for those environments > quickly and easily as well. > > Any real life pros or cons that anyone has > experienced with the appliance? We’d keep our > production and performance testing > environments off it at least for now. > > Jay Miller > > Sr. Oracle DBA > > 201.369.8355 > --------------080108050901080108040100 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------080707030607060407030900" --------------080707030607060407030900 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
FWIW, Delphix does everything that Oracle SnapClone does and more, without any Oracle licensing (except EE) or hardware prerequisites.

Sorry, had to say something here... :)




On 2/2/16 10:36, Peter Sharman wrote:

Snap Clone is part of the Cloud Management pack, which has the DBLM pack as a prerequisite.

 

Pete

Oracle logo

Pete Sharman
Database Architect, DBaaS / DBLM
Enterprise Manager Product Suite
33 Benson Crescent CALWELL ACT 2905 AUSTRALIA

Phone: +61262924095 | | Mobile: +61414443449 
Email: pete.sharman@oracle.com  Twitter: @SharmanPete  LinkedIn: au.linkedin.com/in/petesharman
Website: petewhodidnottweet.com

"Controlling developers is like herding cats."

Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook

 

"Oh no, it's not, it's much harder than that!"

Bruce Pihlamae, long term Oracle DBA

 

From: De DBA [mailto:dedba@tpg.com.au]
Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 10:28 PM
To: Peter Sharman <pete.sharman@oracle.com>; Seth Miller <sethmiller.sm@gmail.com>
Cc: Oracle Discussion List <oracle-l@freelists.org>
Subject: Re: Anyone with experience with the Oracle Data Appliance/ODA?

 

Thanks Pete.

I've now seen the ODA. The database is version 11.2.0.4. The data files are stored in ASM disk groups, not on ACFS mounts. I am not sure if it is still possible to create snapshots with oakcli in this situation?

Is the snap clone functionality in EM/Cloud Control licensed with any optional pack? It sounds promising.. there is not much disk space left on the array, so a thin clone is preferable ;-)

Cheers,
Tony

On 2/02/2016 12:45 pm, Peter Sharman wrote:

Tony

 

I don’t think I saw anything about database versions in the thread, so there are a couple of other options you could use depending on the version:

 

·         If the DB is 12c, there is snapshotting capability built into the database itself

·         From DB 10g onwards you could look at using Enterprise Manager’s Snap Clone functionality which uses copy on write technology to build thin clones, optionally including masking as well.  This may make it easier for you to do the snapshotting as its built into the product, which makes it less error prone than a manual snapshotting process.

 

Let me know if you need any more details on that.

 

Pete

Oracle logo

Pete Sharman
Database Architect, DBaaS / DBLM
Enterprise Manager Product Suite
33 Benson Crescent CALWELL ACT 2905 AUSTRALIA

Phone: +61262924095 | | Mobile: +61414443449 
Email: pete.sharman@oracle.com  Twitter: @SharmanPete  LinkedIn: au.linkedin.com/in/petesharman
Website: petewhodidnottweet.com

"Controlling developers is like herding cats."

Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook

 

"Oh no, it's not, it's much harder than that!"

Bruce Pihlamae, long term Oracle DBA

 

From: De DBA [mailto:dedba@tpg.com.au]
Sent: Monday, February 1, 2016 10:32 AM
To: Seth Miller <sethmiller.sm@gmail.com>
Cc: Oracle Discussion List <oracle-l@freelists.org>
Subject: Re: Anyone with experience with the Oracle Data Appliance/ODA?

 

Seth,

Thanks for that. I haven't got access to the systems yet, just reading up and preparing for the shock..

You will not find OCFS on the ODA. It uses ACFS for the cluster file system as well as the database files.

 

Ah, yes, of course, it's on ASM... I understand that oakcli will create & manage fs automatically, but I'm not going to have RAC. One node is supposed to be production, whereas the other node will run dev, test and UAT. I will need to refresh the dev & test databases from production, and wonder whether I can create a snapshot, do the masking etc. and then mount the copy on the other node where it will then be used as the gold copy for the refreshes.

get yourself a couple of excellent books.


I did look at the first one, which has some famous names amongst the authors. One of the reviews that I saw mentions that it is somewhat dated? Is it still worthwhile getting even if you work with the latest hard/software?

Cheers,
Tony

On 31/01/2016 2:45 pm, Seth Miller wrote:

Tony,

 

The ODAs apparently are each set up as two stand-alone servers with shared storage. I understand that one needs to use oakcli to create databases and that this tool hides pretty much all functionality that we are used to through dbca etc.

Yes, oakcli is the magic behind ODA but it does not preclude you from using DBCA. If you need to create a database that does not fall into one of the oakcli templates, feel free to use DBCA or any other classic method.

 

But what does it do exactly?

Oakcli is nothing more than a bunch of very well written perl and shell scripts that wrap the classic tools included with the Oracle database software. They are easy to find and read if you really want to know what they are doing.

 

How does one manage the OCFS?

You will not find OCFS on the ODA. It uses ACFS for the cluster file system as well as the database files.

 

Can a file system be mounted on both nodes, or just on one? Is this automatic?

Oakcli will take care of this for you.

 

Given a complete backup (... which is a problem all of its own...), how does one restore a database?

Use RMAN or Enterprise Manager for this. There will be little difference from a standard RAC database in how you backup and restore a database.

 

Don't use centralised wallets with TDE, otherwise problems will arise -- but what does that even mean?

This isn't specific to the ODA. There are a number of reasons to have local wallets in RAC -- one of the most important being that you can't have a local only autologin wallet if it is shared with multiple nodes.

 

You will find little argument that the documentation for ODA is mediocre at best. This is why a number of training companies (including the one I teach for) have developed their own content for the ODA. I think your best course of action, though, is to get yourself a couple of excellent books.

 

Seth Miller

 

On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 10:42 PM, De DBA <dedba@tpg.com.au> wrote:

 

I've just read through that documentation, as I will shortly get the responsibility for 2 ODA's. I would not classify the 3 software manuals and 2 hw manuals as good documentation. After reading all of it, I've got more questions than what I started out with...

The ODAs apparently are each set up as two stand-alone servers with shared storage. I understand that one needs to use oakcli to create databases and that this tool hides pretty much all functionality that we are used to through dbca etc. But what does it do exactly? How does one manage the OCFS? Can a file system be mounted on both nodes, or just on one? Is this automatic? Given a complete backup (... which is a problem all of its own...), how does one restore a database? Don't use centralised wallets with TDE, otherwise problems will arise -- but what does that even mean? Questions...

Pointers to more complete documentation/blogs/etc. regarding managing and patching the ODA are very welcome!

Cheers,
Tony

On 30/01/2016 6:38 am, Hans Forbrich wrote:

Yes, lack of documentation was a problem at one time.

That has significantly improved.  See http://docs.oracle.com/en/engineered-systems/

/Hans

On 29/01/2016 12:54 PM, Andrew Kerber wrote:

I have run into problem with a lack of good documentation on its use. 

Sent from my iPad


On Jan 29, 2016, at 1:49 PM, <Jay.Miller@tdameritrade.com> <Jay.Miller@tdameritrade.com> wrote:

Hi

 

We just attended an ODA presentation and it looks very promising as a solution for our non-prod testing environment as it would allow us to clone multiple instances of the gold copy test databases easily (without needing to coordinate with other departments as we do now) and apply patches for those environments quickly and easily as well.

 

Any real life pros or cons that anyone has experienced with the appliance? We’d keep our production and performance testing environments off it at least for now.

 

 

Jay Miller

Sr. Oracle DBA

201.369.8355

 

 

 

 

 

 


--------------080707030607060407030900 Content-Type: image/jpeg Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD/2wBDAAoHBwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8l JCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8SDc9Pjv/2wBDAQoLCw4NDhwQEBw7KCIo Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozv/wAAR CAARAFgDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAA AgEDAwIEAwUFBAQAAAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkK FhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWG h4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWmp6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl 5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEAAwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREA AgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSExBhJBUQdhcRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMzUvAVYnLRChYk NOEl8RcYGRomJygpKjU2Nzg5OkNERUZHSElKU1RVVldYWVpjZGVmZ2hpanN0dXZ3eHl6goOE hYaHiImKkpOUlZaXmJmaoqOkpaanqKmqsrO0tba3uLm6wsPExcbHyMnK0tPU1dbX2Nna4uPk 5ebn6Onq8vP09fb3+Pn6/9oADAMBAAIRAxEAPwDp/D2nReMlu9S1ueWZ1uGiS1WQosCjpwO/ vWhqPgvSbKwmurOW4sZ4UMiTrO3yEDPOTyKfqPhWK71CS6003NjK/wDrZIJjGJD7j196qnwb M5UaheX17bg5aBrokN9R3rJRt01PYdZOXNGpyx/l/TsY1n5XiXVra51iCabGkiV44iQWIcjI A6561GH0e5ubb/hEYNQj1FbhQWO8Iq5+YPnjpXcW+kQQ+IV1GFDGq2YgVRwoUHOMVC+hp/wk K6nYF7SQjFwUOEm+q9z70chf1yF7K6VtFfT0aMzxVqI1C/i8Ox3i20JAfULjftEadkz6tVLT PEz6ZpGraX9pjvLrToWe0mDBvNi7E46le9b+m+HrKztr2G8t/tTXUxknaYBzL6fgKgu/DGly z2sljYizkgfcXiQICpGCpHcH0p2lv1MoVaHL7Jq6X59+/l6FbSPB2lalpVtfX809/c3MYked p25JGcDB4HtUWtaVZ6HcaBb2EbRI2pAtliS3ynqTTj4OkV3Om3V7Y2zMWWFLkhR9B2+lSXHh KSbTIbae7u5LiO581JmuMsvGOvak1poi1VXtFJ1brXTtdP5aHXPwpI7DNeW2Tya89zfalouq aozTMqiCULHCAfugZHPrXRJ4R1IOpbWNQKgjI+1nkflUl54TWe+ludNkurBpD+9MNwUWQ+uP X3pyvIjDOlQuua7fXXT7tdfITw/otjIlwDoV7pgJXJuJsl8HOBycCitHQdDutLuJJLi9urne uAJpy4H4UU4rQ5K9aftHyyv83+ptx9KcetFFWcz3I/X6U0ffWiikMl/5aD6Uh+830oooEOHe mt0/GiiqBDu1R96KKQRHpRRRSJe5/9k= --------------080707030607060407030900-- --------------080108050901080108040100-- -- http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l