Return-Path: X-Original-To: oracle-l@orafaq.com Delivered-To: oracle-l@orafaq.com Received: from puck1183.startdedicated.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by puck1183.startdedicated.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD3981961037 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2016 18:55:04 +0100 (CET) Received: from turing.freelists.org (freelists-180.iquest.net [206.53.239.180]) by puck1183.startdedicated.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2016 18:55:04 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B870D31DB9; Tue, 2 Feb 2016 12:55:02 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at turing.freelists.org Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ptrxMjhMu20w; Tue, 2 Feb 2016 12:55:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D6E4A31D8E; Tue, 2 Feb 2016 12:54:21 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list oracle-l); Tue, 02 Feb 2016 12:53:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C11B531D65 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2016 12:53:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W-98WZiJP-DO for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2016 12:53:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from cpanel.firstlight.net (cpanel.firstlight.net [72.0.157.4]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTPS id 54D4531D11 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2016 12:53:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from c-65-96-123-158.hsd1.nh.comcast.net ([65.96.123.158]:49712 helo=mwf4500) by cpanel.firstlight.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1aQf91-0004Ui-V7; Tue, 02 Feb 2016 12:53:40 -0500 From: "Mark W. Farnham" To: , , "'Seth Miller'" Cc: "'Oracle Discussion List'" References: <0D8F4CAC0F9D3C4AACC63F50FD9957F75457CBF0@PRDCTWPEMLMB31.prod-am.ameritrade.com> <9AC8C8EE-7604-4A76-B047-52646E10BD2B@gmail.com> <56ABCDD6.3090502@gmail.com> <56AC3F1B.7050604@tpg.com.au> <56AE996B.7040207@tpg.com.au> <2c01b202-429c-4a58-a988-b28393b52e01@default> <56B092B7.3020702@tpg.com.au> In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: Anyone with experience with the Oracle Data Appliance/ODA? Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2016 12:53:38 -0500 Message-ID: <039001d15de2$a58a6e80$f09f4b80$@rsiz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0391_01D15DB8.BCB92170" Content-Language: en-us X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cpanel.firstlight.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freelists.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - rsiz.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cpanel.firstlight.net: authenticated_id: mfarnham@rsiz.com X-Authenticated-Sender: cpanel.firstlight.net: mfarnham@rsiz.com X-archive-position: 63263 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: mwf@rsiz.com Precedence: normal Reply-To: mwf@rsiz.com List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: oracle-l X-List-ID: oracle-l List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: oracle-l ------=_NextPart_000_0391_01D15DB8.BCB92170 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0392_01D15DB8.BCB92170" ------=_NextPart_001_0392_01D15DB8.BCB92170 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Pete. =20 Wouldn=E2=80=99t it be great if there was some pointy-clicky MAP of = features to license requirements. This is one time I think a Graphical = User Interface (GUI) would wind hands down over a Command Line Interface = (CLI). =20 In this metaphor the CLI is essentially reading the features and license = documents from the bottom up.=20 =20 The GUI could have a search box for a specific feature or command, flash = up the appropriate bundle =E2=80=9Cbox=E2=80=9D and have links to the = various license requirements to use the feature. =20 Reading the license matrix is time consuming and error prone (and the = errors are difficult to test for as a user until a visit from license = auditing!) Freeing that research time for learning to use the database = better (which I find much more interesting) and avoiding unfortunate = customer confrontations would be a wonderful advance!=20 =20 Of course only Oracle could be the authoritative voice to create such a = tool. (It might even =E2=80=9Chelp=E2=80=9D salesmen be accurate!) =20 mwf =20 From: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org = [mailto:oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Peter Sharman Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 12:36 PM To: dedba@tpg.com.au; Seth Miller Cc: Oracle Discussion List Subject: RE: Anyone with experience with the Oracle Data Appliance/ODA? =20 Snap Clone is part of the Cloud Management pack, which has the DBLM pack = as a prerequisite. =20 Pete Oracle logo Pete Sharman Database Architect, DBaaS / DBLM Enterprise Manager Product Suite 33 Benson Crescent CALWELL ACT 2905 AUSTRALIA Phone: +61262924095 | | Mobile: +61414443449=20 Email: pete.sharman@oracle.com = Twitter: @SharmanPete LinkedIn: au.linkedin.com/in/petesharman Website: petewhodidnottweet.com _____ =20 "Controlling developers is like herding cats." Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook =20 "Oh no, it's not, it's much harder than that!" Bruce Pihlamae, long term Oracle DBA _____ =20 =20 From: De DBA [mailto:dedba@tpg.com.au]=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 10:28 PM To: Peter Sharman ; Seth Miller = Cc: Oracle Discussion List Subject: Re: Anyone with experience with the Oracle Data Appliance/ODA? =20 Thanks Pete. I've now seen the ODA. The database is version 11.2.0.4. The data files = are stored in ASM disk groups, not on ACFS mounts. I am not sure if it = is still possible to create snapshots with oakcli in this situation? Is the snap clone functionality in EM/Cloud Control licensed with any = optional pack? It sounds promising.. there is not much disk space left = on the array, so a thin clone is preferable ;-)=20 Cheers, Tony On 2/02/2016 12:45 pm, Peter Sharman wrote: Tony =20 I don=E2=80=99t think I saw anything about database versions in the = thread, so there are a couple of other options you could use depending = on the version: =20 =C2=B7 If the DB is 12c, there is snapshotting capability built = into the database itself =C2=B7 From DB 10g onwards you could look at using Enterprise = Manager=E2=80=99s Snap Clone functionality which uses copy on write = technology to build thin clones, optionally including masking as well. = This may make it easier for you to do the snapshotting as its built into = the product, which makes it less error prone than a manual snapshotting = process. =20 Let me know if you need any more details on that. =20 Pete Oraclelogo Pete Sharman Database Architect, DBaaS / DBLM Enterprise Manager Product Suite 33 Benson Crescent CALWELL ACT 2905 AUSTRALIA Phone: +61262924095 | | Mobile: +61414443449=20 Email: pete.sharman@oracle.com = Twitter: @SharmanPete LinkedIn: au.linkedin.com/in/petesharman Website: petewhodidnottweet.com _____ =20 "Controlling developers is like herding cats." Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook =20 "Oh no, it's not, it's much harder than that!" Bruce Pihlamae, long term Oracle DBA _____ =20 =20 From: De DBA [mailto:dedba@tpg.com.au]=20 Sent: Monday, February 1, 2016 10:32 AM To: Seth Miller = Cc: Oracle Discussion List = Subject: Re: Anyone with experience with the Oracle Data Appliance/ODA? =20 Seth, Thanks for that. I haven't got access to the systems yet, just reading = up and preparing for the shock.. You will not find OCFS on the ODA. It uses ACFS for the cluster file = system as well as the database files. =20 Ah, yes, of course, it's on ASM... I understand that oakcli will create = & manage fs automatically, but I'm not going to have RAC. One node is = supposed to be production, whereas the other node will run dev, test and = UAT. I will need to refresh the dev & test databases from production, = and wonder whether I can create a snapshot, do the masking etc. and then = mount the copy on the other node where it will then be used as the gold = copy for the refreshes. get yourself a couple of excellent books.=20 Practical Oracle Database Appliance = =20 Oracle Database Appliance: A Hands-On Guide = =20 I did look at the first one, which has some famous names amongst the = authors. One of the reviews that I saw mentions that it is somewhat = dated? Is it still worthwhile getting even if you work with the latest = hard/software? Cheers, Tony On 31/01/2016 2:45 pm, Seth Miller wrote: Tony,=20 =20 The ODAs apparently are each set up as two stand-alone servers with = shared storage. I understand that one needs to use oakcli to create = databases and that this tool hides pretty much all functionality that we = are used to through dbca etc. Yes, oakcli is the magic behind ODA but it does not preclude you from = using DBCA. If you need to create a database that does not fall into one = of the oakcli templates, feel free to use DBCA or any other classic = method. =20 But what does it do exactly? Oakcli is nothing more than a bunch of very well written perl and shell = scripts that wrap the classic tools included with the Oracle database = software. They are easy to find and read if you really want to know what = they are doing. =20 How does one manage the OCFS? You will not find OCFS on the ODA. It uses ACFS for the cluster file = system as well as the database files. =20 Can a file system be mounted on both nodes, or just on one? Is this = automatic? Oakcli will take care of this for you. =20 Given a complete backup (... which is a problem all of its own...), how = does one restore a database? Use RMAN or Enterprise Manager for this. There will be little difference = from a standard RAC database in how you backup and restore a database. =20 Don't use centralised wallets with TDE, otherwise problems will arise -- = but what does that even mean? This isn't specific to the ODA. There are a number of reasons to have = local wallets in RAC -- one of the most important being that you can't = have a local only autologin wallet if it is shared with multiple nodes. =20 You will find little argument that the documentation for ODA is mediocre = at best. This is why a number of training companies (including the one I = teach for) have developed their own content for the ODA. I think your = best course of action, though, is to get yourself a couple of excellent = books. Practical Oracle Database Appliance = =20 Oracle Database Appliance: A Hands-On Guide = =20 =20 Seth Miller =20 On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 10:42 PM, De DBA wrote: =20 I've just read through that documentation, as I will shortly get the = responsibility for 2 ODA's. I would not classify the 3 software manuals = and 2 hw manuals as good documentation. After reading all of it, I've = got more questions than what I started out with...=20 The ODAs apparently are each set up as two stand-alone servers with = shared storage. I understand that one needs to use oakcli to create = databases and that this tool hides pretty much all functionality that we = are used to through dbca etc. But what does it do exactly? How does one = manage the OCFS? Can a file system be mounted on both nodes, or just on = one? Is this automatic? Given a complete backup (... which is a problem = all of its own...), how does one restore a database? Don't use = centralised wallets with TDE, otherwise problems will arise -- but what = does that even mean? Questions...=20 Pointers to more complete documentation/blogs/etc. regarding managing = and patching the ODA are very welcome! Cheers, Tony=20 On 30/01/2016 6:38 am, Hans Forbrich wrote: Yes, lack of documentation was a problem at one time. That has significantly improved. See = http://docs.oracle.com/en/engineered-systems/ /Hans On 29/01/2016 12:54 PM, Andrew Kerber wrote: I have run into problem with a lack of good documentation on its use.=20 Sent from my iPad On Jan 29, 2016, at 1:49 PM, = wrote: Hi =20 We just attended an ODA presentation and it looks very promising as a = solution for our non-prod testing environment as it would allow us to = clone multiple instances of the gold copy test databases easily (without = needing to coordinate with other departments as we do now) and apply = patches for those environments quickly and easily as well. =20 Any real life pros or cons that anyone has experienced with the = appliance? We=E2=80=99d keep our production and performance testing = environments off it at least for now. =20 =20 Jay Miller Sr. Oracle DBA 201.369.8355 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_001_0392_01D15DB8.BCB92170 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks Pete.

 

Wouldn=E2=80=99t it be great if there was some pointy-clicky MAP of = features to license requirements. This is one time I think a Graphical = User Interface (GUI) would wind hands down over a Command Line Interface = (CLI).

 

In this metaphor the CLI is essentially reading the features and = license documents from the bottom up.

 

The GUI could have a search box for a specific feature or command, = flash up the appropriate bundle =E2=80=9Cbox=E2=80=9D and have links to = the various license requirements to use the = feature.

 

Reading the license matrix is time consuming and error prone (and the = errors are difficult to test for as a user until a visit from license = auditing!) Freeing that research time for learning to use the database = better (which I find much more interesting) and avoiding unfortunate = customer confrontations would be a wonderful advance! =

 

Of course only Oracle could be the authoritative voice to create such = a tool. (It might even =E2=80=9Chelp=E2=80=9D salesmen be = accurate!)

 

mwf

 

From: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org = [mailto:oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Peter = Sharman
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 12:36 = PM
To: dedba@tpg.com.au; Seth Miller
Cc: Oracle = Discussion List
Subject: RE: Anyone with experience with the = Oracle Data Appliance/ODA?

 

Snap Clone is part of the Cloud Management pack, which has the DBLM = pack as a prerequisite.

 

Pete

3D"Oracle

Pete Sharman
Database Architect, DBaaS / DBLM
Enterprise Manager = Product Suite
33 Benson Crescent CALWELL ACT 2905 = AUSTRALIA

Phone: +61262924095 | | Mobile: = +61414443449 
Email: pete.sharman@oracle.com  = Twitter: @SharmanPete  LinkedIn: au.linkedin.com/in/petesharman
Website: = petewhodidnottweet.com

"Controlling developers is like herding = cats."

Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook

 

"Oh no, it's not, it's much harder than = that!"

Bruce Pihlamae, long term Oracle DBA

 

From: De DBA [mailto:dedba@tpg.com.au] =
Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 10:28 PM
To: Peter = Sharman <pete.sharman@oracle.com>; = Seth Miller <sethmiller.sm@gmail.com>Cc: Oracle Discussion List <oracle-l@freelists.org>
= Subject: Re: Anyone with experience with the Oracle Data = Appliance/ODA?

 

Thanks Pete.

I've now seen the ODA. The database is = version 11.2.0.4. The data files are stored in ASM disk groups, not on = ACFS mounts. I am not sure if it is still possible to create snapshots = with oakcli in this situation?

Is the snap clone functionality in = EM/Cloud Control licensed with any optional pack? It sounds promising.. = there is not much disk space left on the array, so a thin clone is = preferable ;-) =

Cheers,
Tony

On 2/02/2016 12:45 pm, Peter = Sharman wrote:

Tony

 

I don=E2=80=99t think I saw anything about database versions in the = thread, so there are a couple of other options you could use depending = on the version:

 

=C2=B7        = ; If the DB is 12c, there is snapshotting capability built into the = database itself

=C2=B7        = ; From DB 10g onwards you could look at using Enterprise = Manager=E2=80=99s Snap Clone functionality which uses copy on write = technology to build thin clones, optionally including masking as = well.  This may make it easier for you to do the snapshotting as = its built into the product, which makes it less error prone than a = manual snapshotting process.

 

Let me know if you need any more details on that.

 

Pete

3D"Oracle

Pete Sharman
Database Architect, DBaaS / DBLM
Enterprise Manager = Product Suite
33 Benson Crescent CALWELL ACT 2905 = AUSTRALIA

Phone: +61262924095 | | Mobile: = +61414443449 
Email: pete.sharman@oracle.com  = Twitter: @SharmanPete  LinkedIn: au.linkedin.com/in/petesharman
Website: = petewhodidnottweet.com

"Controlling developers is like herding cats."

Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook

 

"Oh no, it's not, it's much harder than that!"

Bruce Pihlamae, long term Oracle DBA

 

From: De DBA [mailto:dedba@tpg.com.au] =
Sent: Monday, February 1, 2016 10:32 AM
To: Seth = Miller <sethmiller.sm@gmail.com>
Cc: Oracle Discussion List <oracle-l@freelists.org>=
Subject: Re: Anyone with experience with the Oracle Data = Appliance/ODA?

 

Seth,

Thanks for that. I haven't got access to the = systems yet, just reading up and preparing for the = shock..

You will not find OCFS = on the ODA. It uses ACFS for the cluster file system as well as the = database files.

 

Ah, yes, of course, it's on ASM... = I understand that oakcli will create & manage fs automatically, but = I'm not going to have RAC. One node is supposed to be production, = whereas the other node will run dev, test and UAT. I will need to = refresh the dev & test databases from production, and wonder whether = I can create a snapshot, do the masking etc. and then mount the copy on = the other node where it will then be used as the gold copy for the = refreshes.

get yourself a couple of excellent = books.


I did look at the = first one, which has some famous names amongst the authors. One of the = reviews that I saw mentions that it is somewhat dated? Is it still = worthwhile getting even if you work with the latest = hard/software?

Cheers,
Tony

On 31/01/2016 2:45 pm, Seth Miller = wrote:

Tony,

 

The ODAs = apparently are each set up as two stand-alone servers with shared = storage. I understand that one needs to use oakcli to create databases = and that this tool hides pretty much all functionality that we are used = to through dbca etc.

Yes, oakcli is the = magic behind ODA but it does not preclude you from using DBCA. If you = need to create a database that does not fall into one of the oakcli = templates, feel free to use DBCA or any other classic = method.

 

But what = does it do exactly?

Oakcli is nothing more = than a bunch of very well written perl and shell scripts that wrap the = classic tools included with the Oracle database software. They are easy = to find and read if you really want to know what they are = doing.

 

How does = one manage the OCFS?

You will not find OCFS = on the ODA. It uses ACFS for the cluster file system as well as the = database files.

 

Can a = file system be mounted on both nodes, or just on one? Is this = automatic?

Oakcli will take care of this for = you.

 

Given a = complete backup (... which is a problem all of its own...), how does one = restore a database?

Use RMAN or Enterprise = Manager for this. There will be little difference from a standard RAC = database in how you backup and restore a database.

 

Don't use = centralised wallets with TDE, otherwise problems will arise -- but what = does that even mean?

This isn't specific to = the ODA. There are a number of reasons to have local wallets in RAC -- = one of the most important being that you can't have a local only = autologin wallet if it is shared with multiple nodes.

 

You will = find little argument that the documentation for ODA is mediocre at best. = This is why a number of training companies (including the one I teach = for) have developed their own content for the ODA. I think your best = course of action, though, is to get yourself a couple of excellent = books.

 

Seth = Miller

 

On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 10:42 PM, = De DBA <dedba@tpg.com.au> = wrote:

 

I've just read through = that documentation, as I will shortly get the responsibility for 2 = ODA's. I would not classify the 3 software manuals and 2 hw manuals as = good documentation. After reading all of it, I've got more questions = than what I started out with...

The ODAs apparently are each set = up as two stand-alone servers with shared storage. I understand that one = needs to use oakcli to create databases and that this tool hides pretty = much all functionality that we are used to through dbca etc. But what = does it do exactly? How does one manage the OCFS? Can a file system be = mounted on both nodes, or just on one? Is this automatic? Given a = complete backup (... which is a problem all of its own...), how does one = restore a database? Don't use centralised wallets with TDE, otherwise = problems will arise -- but what does that even mean? Questions... =

Pointers to more complete documentation/blogs/etc. regarding = managing and patching the ODA are very welcome!

Cheers,
Tony =

On = 30/01/2016 6:38 am, Hans Forbrich = wrote:

Yes, lack of documentation was a = problem at one time.

That has significantly improved.  See = http://docs.oracle.com/en/engineered-systems/
/Hans

On 29/01/2016 12:54 PM, Andrew Kerber = wrote:

I have run into problem with a lack = of good documentation on its use. 

Sent from my = iPad


On Jan 29, 2016, = at 1:49 PM, <Jay.Miller@tdameritrade.com> <Jay.Miller@tdameritrade.com> = wrote:

Hi

 

We just attended an ODA presentation and it looks very = promising as a solution for our non-prod testing environment as it would = allow us to clone multiple instances of the gold copy test databases = easily (without needing to coordinate with other departments as we do = now) and apply patches for those environments quickly and easily as = well.

 

Any real life pros or cons that anyone has experienced with = the appliance? We=E2=80=99d keep our production and performance testing = environments off it at least for now.

 

 

Jay Miller

Sr. Oracle DBA

201.369.8355

 

 

 

 

 

 

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