Return-Path: X-Original-To: oracle-l@orafaq.com Delivered-To: oracle-l@orafaq.com Received: from puck1183.startdedicated.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by puck1183.startdedicated.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06E661961035 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2016 18:37:29 +0100 (CET) Received: from turing.freelists.org (freelists-180.iquest.net [206.53.239.180]) by puck1183.startdedicated.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2016 18:37:28 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E34CC31D3C; Tue, 2 Feb 2016 12:37:26 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at turing.freelists.org Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id duCGwsEiiE6h; Tue, 2 Feb 2016 12:37:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 28BB631D0F; Tue, 2 Feb 2016 12:36:46 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list oracle-l); Tue, 02 Feb 2016 12:36:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3A9DF31BD5 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2016 12:36:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KjHlHoFK3MQJ for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2016 12:36:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from userp1040.oracle.com (userp1040.oracle.com [156.151.31.81]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTPS id D11F631BA7 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2016 12:36:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u12Ha3sK010776 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 2 Feb 2016 17:36:03 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u12Ha2Up005931 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 2 Feb 2016 17:36:02 GMT Received: from abhmp0016.oracle.com (abhmp0016.oracle.com [141.146.116.22]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u12Ha2ma023760; Tue, 2 Feb 2016 17:36:02 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2016 09:36:13 -0800 (PST) From: Peter Sharman To: dedba@tpg.com.au, Seth Miller Cc: Oracle Discussion List Subject: RE: Anyone with experience with the Oracle Data Appliance/ODA? References: <0D8F4CAC0F9D3C4AACC63F50FD9957F75457CBF0@PRDCTWPEMLMB31.prod-am.ameritrade.com> <9AC8C8EE-7604-4A76-B047-52646E10BD2B@gmail.com> <56ABCDD6.3090502@gmail.com> <56AC3F1B.7050604@tpg.com.au> <56AE996B.7040207@tpg.com.au> <2c01b202-429c-4a58-a988-b28393b52e01@default> <56B092B7.3020702@tpg.com.au> In-Reply-To: <56B092B7.3020702@tpg.com.au> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="__1454434561918138991abhmp0016.oracle.com" X-Source-IP: userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71] X-archive-position: 63261 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: pete.sharman@oracle.com Precedence: normal Reply-To: pete.sharman@oracle.com List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: oracle-l X-List-ID: oracle-l List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: oracle-l --__1454434561918138991abhmp0016.oracle.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="__1454434561918138992abhmp0016.oracle.com" --__1454434561918138992abhmp0016.oracle.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Snap Clone is part of the Cloud Management pack, which has the DBLM pack as= a prerequisite. =C2=A0 Pete Pete Sharman Database Architect, DBaaS / DBLM Enterprise Manager Product Suite 33 Benson Crescent CALWELL ACT 2905 AUSTRALIA Phone: HYPERLINK "tel:+61262924095"+61262924095 | | Mobile: +61414443449=C2= =A0 Email: HYPERLINK "mailto:pete.sharman@oracle.com"pete.sharman@oracle.com=C2= =A0 Twitter: @SharmanPete=C2=A0 LinkedIn: au.linkedin.com/in/petesharman Website: petewhodidnottweet.com =C2=A0 _____ =C2=A0 "Controlling developers is like herding cats." Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook =C2=A0 "Oh no, it's not, it's much harder than that!" Bruce Pihlamae, long term Oracle DBA =C2=A0 _____ =C2=A0 =C2=A0 From: De DBA [mailto:dedba@tpg.com.au]=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 10:28 PM To: Peter Sharman ; Seth Miller Cc: Oracle Discussion List Subject: Re: Anyone with experience with the Oracle Data Appliance/ODA? =C2=A0 Thanks Pete. I've now seen the ODA. The database is version 11.2.0.4. The data files are= stored in ASM disk groups, not on ACFS mounts. I am not sure if it is stil= l possible to create snapshots with oakcli in this situation? Is the snap clone functionality in EM/Cloud Control licensed with any optio= nal pack? It sounds promising.. there is not much disk space left on the ar= ray, so a thin clone is preferable ;-)=20 Cheers, Tony On 2/02/2016 12:45 pm, Peter Sharman wrote: Tony =C2=A0 I don=E2=80=99t think I saw anything about database versions in the thread,= so there are a couple of other options you could use depending on the vers= ion: =C2=A0 =C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 If the DB is 12c, th= ere is snapshotting capability built into the database itself =C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 From DB 10g onwards = you could look at using Enterprise Manager=E2=80=99s Snap Clone functionali= ty which uses copy on write technology to build thin clones, optionally inc= luding masking as well.=C2=A0 This may make it easier for you to do the sna= pshotting as its built into the product, which makes it less error prone th= an a manual snapshotting process. =C2=A0 Let me know if you need any more details on that. =C2=A0 Pete Pete Sharman Database Architect, DBaaS / DBLM Enterprise Manager Product Suite 33 Benson Crescent CALWELL ACT 2905 AUSTRALIA Phone: HYPERLINK "tel:+61262924095"+61262924095 | | Mobile: +61414443449=C2= =A0 Email: HYPERLINK "mailto:pete.sharman@oracle.com"pete.sharman@oracle.com=C2= =A0 Twitter: @SharmanPete=C2=A0 LinkedIn: au.linkedin.com/in/petesharman Website: petewhodidnottweet.com =C2=A0 _____ =C2=A0 "Controlling developers is like herding cats." Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook =C2=A0 "Oh no, it's not, it's much harder than that!" Bruce Pihlamae, long term Oracle DBA =C2=A0 _____ =C2=A0 =C2=A0 From: De DBA [mailto:dedba@tpg.com.au]=20 Sent: Monday, February 1, 2016 10:32 AM To: Seth Miller HYPERLINK "mailto:sethmiller.sm@gmail.com" Cc: Oracle Discussion List HYPERLINK "mailto:oracle-l@freelists.org" Subject: Re: Anyone with experience with the Oracle Data Appliance/ODA? =C2=A0 Seth, Thanks for that. I haven't got access to the systems yet, just reading up a= nd preparing for the shock.. You will not find OCFS on the ODA. It uses ACFS for the cluster file system= as well as the database files. =C2=A0 Ah, yes, of course, it's on ASM... I understand that oakcli will create & m= anage fs automatically, but I'm not going to have RAC. One node is supposed= to be production, whereas the other node will run dev, test and UAT. I wil= l need to refresh the dev & test databases from production, and wonder whet= her I can create a snapshot, do the masking etc. and then mount the copy on= the other node where it will then be used as the gold copy for the refresh= es. get yourself a couple of excellent books.=20 HYPERLINK "http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Oracle-Database-Appliance-Curtis= /dp/1430262656"Practical Oracle Database Appliance HYPERLINK "http://www.amazon.com/Oracle-Database-Appliance-Hands--Guide/dp/= 0071827447"Oracle Database Appliance: A Hands-On Guide I did look at the first one, which has some famous names amongst the author= s. One of the reviews that I saw mentions that it is somewhat dated? Is it = still worthwhile getting even if you work with the latest hard/software? Cheers, Tony On 31/01/2016 2:45 pm, Seth Miller wrote: Tony,=20 =C2=A0 The ODAs apparently are each set up as two stand-alone servers with shared = storage. I understand that one needs to use oakcli to create databases and = that this tool hides pretty much all functionality that we are used to thro= ugh dbca etc. Yes, oakcli is the magic behind ODA but it does not preclude you from using= DBCA. If you need to create a database that does not fall into one of the = oakcli templates, feel free to use DBCA or any other classic method. =C2=A0 But what does it do exactly? Oakcli is nothing more than a bunch of very well written perl and shell scr= ipts that wrap the classic tools included with the Oracle database software= . They are easy to find and read if you really want to know what they are d= oing. =C2=A0 How does one manage the OCFS? You will not find OCFS on the ODA. It uses ACFS for the cluster file system= as well as the database files. =C2=A0 Can a file system be mounted on both nodes, or just on one? Is this automat= ic? Oakcli will take care of this for you. =C2=A0 Given a complete backup (... which is a problem all of its own...), how doe= s one restore a database? Use RMAN or Enterprise Manager for this. There will be little difference fr= om a standard RAC database in how you backup and restore a database. =C2=A0 Don't use centralised wallets with TDE, otherwise problems will arise -- bu= t what does that even mean? This isn't specific to the ODA. There are a number of reasons to have local= wallets in RAC -- one of the most important being that you can't have a lo= cal only autologin wallet if it is shared with multiple nodes. =C2=A0 You will find little argument that the documentation for ODA is mediocre at= best. This is why a number of training companies (including the one I teac= h for) have developed their own content for the ODA. I think your best cour= se of action, though, is to get yourself a couple of excellent books. HYPERLINK "http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Oracle-Database-Appliance-Curtis= /dp/1430262656"Practical Oracle Database Appliance HYPERLINK "http://www.amazon.com/Oracle-Database-Appliance-Hands--Guide/dp/= 0071827447"Oracle Database Appliance: A Hands-On Guide =C2=A0 Seth Miller =C2=A0 On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 10:42 PM, De DBA wrote: =C2=A0 I've just read through that documentation, as I will shortly get the respon= sibility for 2 ODA's. I would not classify the 3 software manuals and 2 hw = manuals as good documentation. After reading all of it, I've got more quest= ions than what I started out with...=20 The ODAs apparently are each set up as two stand-alone servers with shared = storage. I understand that one needs to use oakcli to create databases and = that this tool hides pretty much all functionality that we are used to thro= ugh dbca etc. But what does it do exactly? How does one manage the OCFS? Ca= n a file system be mounted on both nodes, or just on one? Is this automatic= ? Given a complete backup (... which is a problem all of its own...), how d= oes one restore a database? Don't use centralised wallets with TDE, otherwi= se problems will arise -- but what does that even mean? Questions...=20 Pointers to more complete documentation/blogs/etc. regarding managing and p= atching the ODA are very welcome! Cheers, Tony=20 On 30/01/2016 6:38 am, Hans Forbrich wrote: Yes, lack of documentation was a problem at one time. That has significantly improved.=C2=A0 See http://docs.oracle.com/en/engine= ered-systems/ /Hans On 29/01/2016 12:54 PM, Andrew Kerber wrote: I have run into problem with a lack of good documentation on its use.=C2=A0 Sent from my iPad On Jan 29, 2016, at 1:49 PM, wrote: Hi =C2=A0 We just attended an ODA presentation and it looks very promising as a solut= ion for our non-prod testing environment as it would allow us to clone mult= iple instances of the gold copy test databases easily (without needing to c= oordinate with other departments as we do now) and apply patches for those = environments quickly and easily as well. =C2=A0 Any real life pros or cons that anyone has experienced with the appliance? = We=E2=80=99d keep our production and performance testing environments off i= t at least for now. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Jay Miller Sr. Oracle DBA 201.369.8355 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 --__1454434561918138992abhmp0016.oracle.com Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="__1454434561919138993abhmp0016.oracle.com" --__1454434561919138993abhmp0016.oracle.com Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

= Snap Clone is part of the Cloud Management = pack, which has the DBLM pack as a prerequisite.

 

Pete

3D"Oracle

Pete Sharman<= br>Database Architect, DBaaS / DBLM
Enterprise Manager Product Suite
= 33 Benson Crescent CALWELL ACT 2905 AUSTRALIA

<= span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#66666= 6'>Phone: +6126292= 4095 | | Mobile: +61414443449 =
Email: pete.sharman@oracle.com  Twitter: @Shar= manPete  LinkedIn: au.linkedin.com/in/petesharman
Website: petewhodidnottwe= et.com

"Controlling developers is lik= e herding cats."

= Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook

 

"Oh no, i= t's not, it's much harder than that!"

Bruce Pihlamae, long term Oracle DBA

 

=

From: De DBA [mailto:dedba@tpg.com.au]
Sent: Tuesday, February= 2, 2016 10:28 PM
To: Peter Sharman <pete.sharman@oracle.com&g= t;; Seth Miller <sethmiller.sm@gmail.com>
Cc: Oracle Discus= sion List <oracle-l@freelists.org>
Subject: Re: Anyone with= experience with the Oracle Data Appliance/ODA?

=

 

Thanks Pete.

I've now seen the ODA. The da= tabase is version 11.2.0.4. The data files are stored in ASM disk groups, n= ot on ACFS mounts. I am not sure if it is still possible to create snapshot= s with oakcli in this situation?

Is the snap clone functionality in = EM/Cloud Control licensed with any optional pack? It sounds promising.. the= re is not much disk space left on the array, so a thin clone is preferable = ;-)

Cheers,
Tony

On 2/02/2016 12:45 pm, Peter Sharman wrote:

Tony

 

I don=E2=80= =99t think I saw anything about database versions in the thread, so there a= re a couple of other options you could use depending on the version:=

 <= /span>

=C2=B7         If the DB is 12c, ther= e is snapshotting capability built into the database itself

=C2=B7         From DB 10g onwards you could look at= using Enterprise Manager=E2=80=99s Snap Clone functionality which uses cop= y on write technology to build thin clones, optionally including masking as= well.  This may make it easier for you to do the snapshotting as its = built into the product, which makes it less error prone than a manual snaps= hotting process.

 

Let me know if you need any more details on that.

&nbs= p;

Pete

3D"Oracle

Pete Sharman
Database A= rchitect, DBaaS / DBLM
Enterprise Manager Product Suite
33 Benson Cre= scent CALWELL ACT 2905 AUSTRALIA

Phone: +61262924095 | | Mobile: +61414443449 
Email: pete.sharman@oracle.com  Twitter: @SharmanPete = LinkedIn: au.linkedin.com/in/petesharman
Website: petewhodidnottweet.com<= o:p>

"Controlling developers is like herding cats."

Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbo= ok

 

"Oh no, it's not, it's much harder than tha= t!"

Bruce Pihlamae, long= term Oracle DBA

&n= bsp;

From: De DBA [mailto:dedba@tpg.com.au]
Sent: Monday, Feb= ruary 1, 2016 10:32 AM
To: Seth Miller <sethmiller.sm@gmail.com>
Cc: Oracle D= iscussion List <oracle-l@freel= ists.org>
Subject: Re: Anyone with experience with the Ora= cle Data Appliance/ODA?

 

Seth,

Thanks for that. I haven't got access to the systems yet, jus= t reading up and preparing for the shock..

You will not find OCFS on= the ODA. It uses ACFS for the cluster file system as well as the database = files.

 

Ah, yes, of course, it's on ASM... I under= stand that oakcli will create & manage fs automatically, but I'm not go= ing to have RAC. One node is supposed to be production, whereas the other n= ode will run dev, test and UAT. I will need to refresh the dev & test d= atabases from production, and wonder whether I can create a snapshot, do th= e masking etc. and then mount the copy on the other node where it will then= be used as the gold copy for the refreshes.

get yourself a couple of excellent books.

Pra= ctical Oracle Database Appliance

I did look at the first one, which has some famous names amongst the autho= rs. One of the reviews that I saw mentions that it is somewhat dated? Is it= still worthwhile getting even if you work with the latest hard/software?
Cheers,
Tony

On 31/01/2016= 2:45 pm, Seth Miller wrote:

Tony,

 

The ODAs apparently are each set u= p as two stand-alone servers with shared storage. I understand that one nee= ds to use oakcli to create databases and that this tool hides pretty much a= ll functionality that we are used to through dbca etc.

= Yes, oakcli is the magic behind ODA but it does not preclude you from using= DBCA. If you need to create a database that does not fall into one of the = oakcli templates, feel free to use DBCA or any other classic method.=

 

<= div>

But what does it d= o exactly?

Oakcli is nothing more than a bunch of very = well written perl and shell scripts that wrap the classic tools included wi= th the Oracle database software. They are easy to find and read if you real= ly want to know what they are doing.

 

How does one manage the OCFS?

= You will not find OCFS on the ODA. It uses ACFS for the cluster file system= as well as the database files.

 

Can a file system be mounted on both nodes, or just on= one? Is this automatic?

Oakcli will take care of this = for you.

 

Giv= en a complete backup (... which is a problem all of its own...), how does o= ne restore a database?

Use RMAN or Enterprise Manager f= or this. There will be little difference from a standard RAC database in ho= w you backup and restore a database.

 

Don't use centralised wallets with TDE, otherwise = problems will arise -- but what does that even mean?

<= /div>

Th= is isn't specific to the ODA. There are a number of reasons to have local w= allets in RAC -- one of the most important being that you can't have a loca= l only autologin wallet if it is shared with multiple nodes.

 

You will find little argum= ent that the documentation for ODA is mediocre at best. This is why a numbe= r of training companies (including the one I teach for) have developed thei= r own content for the ODA. I think your best course of action, though, is t= o get yourself a couple of excellent books.

Pract= ical Oracle Database Appliance

 

Seth Miller

 

On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 10:42 PM, De DBA <dedba@tpg.com.au> wro= te:

 

<= div>

I've just read thro= ugh that documentation, as I will shortly get the responsibility for 2 ODA'= s. I would not classify the 3 software manuals and 2 hw manuals as good doc= umentation. After reading all of it, I've got more questions than what I st= arted out with...

The ODAs apparently are each set up as two stand-= alone servers with shared storage. I understand that one needs to use oakcl= i to create databases and that this tool hides pretty much all functionalit= y that we are used to through dbca etc. But what does it do exactly? How do= es one manage the OCFS? Can a file system be mounted on both nodes, or just= on one? Is this automatic? Given a complete backup (... which is a problem= all of its own...), how does one restore a database? Don't use centralised= wallets with TDE, otherwise problems will arise -- but what does that even= mean? Questions...

Pointers to more complete documentation/blogs/e= tc. regarding managing and patching the ODA are very welcome!

Cheers= ,
Tony

On 30/01/2016 6:38 am, H= ans Forbrich wrote:

Yes, lack of documentatio= n was a problem at one time.

That has significantly improved.  = See http://docs.oracle.com/en/engineered-systems/

/Hans

= On 29/01/2016 12:54 PM, Andrew Kerber wrote:

= I have run into problem with a lack of good documentation on its use. =

Sent from my iPad


On Jan 29, 2016, at 1:49 PM, <Jay.Miller@tdameritr= ade.com> <Jay.Miller@tdameritrade.com> wrote:

=

Hi

 

We just attended an OD= A presentation and it looks very promising as a solution for our non-prod t= esting environment as it would allow us to clone multiple instances of the = gold copy test databases easily (without needing to coordinate with other d= epartments as we do now) and apply patches for those environments quickly a= nd easily as well.

 

Any rea= l life pros or cons that anyone has experienced with the appliance? We=E2= =80=99d keep our production and performance testing environments off it at = least for now.

 

 =

Jay Miller

Sr. Oracle DBA<= /p>

201.369.8355

 

 

 

=

 

 

 

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