Return-Path: X-Original-To: oracle-l@orafaq.com Delivered-To: oracle-l@orafaq.com Received: from puck1183.startdedicated.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by puck1183.startdedicated.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9918B1960FD1 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2016 12:39:08 +0100 (CET) Received: from turing.freelists.org (freelists-180.iquest.net [206.53.239.180]) by puck1183.startdedicated.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2016 12:39:08 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C742530E58; Tue, 2 Feb 2016 06:39:06 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at turing.freelists.org Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HiPbsgHyF8zr; Tue, 2 Feb 2016 06:39:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id EB5E330E21; Tue, 2 Feb 2016 06:38:25 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list oracle-l); Tue, 02 Feb 2016 06:37:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id DB00C30A96 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2016 06:37:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xnY87t0V5Ylk for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2016 06:37:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail-yk0-f181.google.com (mail-yk0-f181.google.com [209.85.160.181]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTPS id A10F83094F for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2016 06:37:44 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-yk0-f181.google.com with SMTP id z7so104782828yka.3 for ; Tue, 02 Feb 2016 03:37:44 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=t1gXYxTuYvprGAFsCcBNYLPFuszFhqeNitQs0RHUZac=; b=YPnUz+d8dMdwsjo2kdpZ/XNgxg9DzuvRWjABQN8uz6yCgwFo+3hjkcP8shSrhwn7Go PSK1GFvCs4vGLpdXlO3yOgQL0iKzJ1+tLJyx5xjNnUCzfAd0+uGawHYZBsAy68kWTkKh iwiJbMDrvu6DaFihxfqxBAELWrbTPCtfMGK/awvrQkALl4Enmur62jiGf6RxP6AXBfD2 nyJjJYH1JamHRMhbh3RzjefQM1h+I8k+YODoFPBtmFCR3qQ0esjvMuu9jyW208dZuekg YnL5fxfwqxwtU4B2Ve9KyKdf/M0ncqm8K9JvT1DUQm1vmEGt8dgvKZGBWX61kWrb915l QDGw== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YOQtDdoqzxBmmPH0xEng4brAI9wvdHyhXNAGxF7oB/zzm0ZiBQ1t/wcVJvXmol2+qr+6q+J4TvzrwQvEIA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.37.103.138 with SMTP id b132mr15084154ybc.150.1454413063962; Tue, 02 Feb 2016 03:37:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.129.159.210 with HTTP; Tue, 2 Feb 2016 03:37:43 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <56B092B7.3020702@tpg.com.au> References: <0D8F4CAC0F9D3C4AACC63F50FD9957F75457CBF0@PRDCTWPEMLMB31.prod-am.ameritrade.com> <9AC8C8EE-7604-4A76-B047-52646E10BD2B@gmail.com> <56ABCDD6.3090502@gmail.com> <56AC3F1B.7050604@tpg.com.au> <56AE996B.7040207@tpg.com.au> <2c01b202-429c-4a58-a988-b28393b52e01@default> <56B092B7.3020702@tpg.com.au> Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2016 12:37:43 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Anyone with experience with the Oracle Data Appliance/ODA? From: Ls Cheng To: De DBA Cc: pete.sharman@oracle.com, Seth Miller , Oracle Discussion List Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary=001a1142f7ae090164052ac7eeba X-archive-position: 63255 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: exriscer@gmail.com Precedence: normal Reply-To: exriscer@gmail.com List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: oracle-l X-List-ID: oracle-l List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: oracle-l --001a1142f7ae090164052ac7eeba Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1142f7ae090160052ac7eeb9 --001a1142f7ae090160052ac7eeb9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi AFIAK the ACFS snapshot depends on Grid Infrastructure version, if that is 12cR1 you should be able. But of course the database has to reside on ACFS. On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:27 PM, De DBA wrote: > Thanks Pete. > > I've now seen the ODA. The database is version 11.2.0.4. The data files > are stored in ASM disk groups, not on ACFS mounts. I am not sure if it is > still possible to create snapshots with oakcli in this situation? > > Is the snap clone functionality in EM/Cloud Control licensed with any > optional pack? It sounds promising.. there is not much disk space left on > the array, so a thin clone is preferable ;-) > > Cheers, > Tony > > > On 2/02/2016 12:45 pm, Peter Sharman wrote: > > Tony > > > > I don=E2=80=99t think I saw anything about database versions in the threa= d, so > there are a couple of other options you could use depending on the versio= n: > > > > =C2=B7 If the DB is 12c, there is snapshotting capability built i= nto > the database itself > > =C2=B7 From DB 10g onwards you could look at using Enterprise > Manager=E2=80=99s Snap Clone functionality which uses copy on write techn= ology to > build thin clones, optionally including masking as well. This may make i= t > easier for you to do the snapshotting as its built into the product, whic= h > makes it less error prone than a manual snapshotting process. > > > > Let me know if you need any more details on that. > > > > Pete > > [image: Oracle logo] > > Pete Sharman > Database Architect, DBaaS / DBLM > Enterprise Manager Product Suite > 33 Benson Crescent CALWELL ACT 2905 AUSTRALIA > > Phone: +61262924095 | | Mobile: *+61414443449 <%2B61414443449>* > Email: pete.sharman@oracle.com Twitter: @SharmanPete LinkedIn: > au.linkedin.com/in/petesharman > Website: petewhodidnottweet.com > ------------------------------ > > "Controlling developers is like herding cats." > > Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook > > > > "Oh no, it's not, it's much harder than that!" > > Bruce Pihlamae, long term Oracle DBA > ------------------------------ > > > > *From:* De DBA [mailto:dedba@tpg.com.au ] > *Sent:* Monday, February 1, 2016 10:32 AM > *To:* Seth Miller > *Cc:* Oracle Discussion List > > *Subject:* Re: Anyone with experience with the Oracle Data Appliance/ODA? > > > > Seth, > > Thanks for that. I haven't got access to the systems yet, just reading up > and preparing for the shock.. > > You will not find OCFS on the ODA. It uses ACFS for the cluster file > system as well as the database files. > > > > Ah, yes, of course, it's on ASM... I understand that oakcli will create & > manage fs automatically, but I'm not going to have RAC. One node is > supposed to be production, whereas the other node will run dev, test and > UAT. I will need to refresh the dev & test databases from production, and > wonder whether I can create a snapshot, do the masking etc. and then moun= t > the copy on the other node where it will then be used as the gold copy fo= r > the refreshes. > > get yourself a couple of excellent books. > > Practical Oracle Database Appliance > > > Oracle Database Appliance: A Hands-On Guide > > > > I did look at the first one, which has some famous names amongst the > authors. One of the reviews that I saw mentions that it is somewhat dated= ? > Is it still worthwhile getting even if you work with the latest > hard/software? > > Cheers, > Tony > > On 31/01/2016 2:45 pm, Seth Miller wrote: > > Tony, > > > > The ODAs apparently are each set up as two stand-alone servers with share= d > storage. I understand that one needs to use oakcli to create databases an= d > that this tool hides pretty much all functionality that we are used to > through dbca etc. > > Yes, oakcli is the magic behind ODA but it does not preclude you from > using DBCA. If you need to create a database that does not fall into one = of > the oakcli templates, feel free to use DBCA or any other classic method. > > > > But what does it do exactly? > > Oakcli is nothing more than a bunch of very well written perl and shell > scripts that wrap the classic tools included with the Oracle database > software. They are easy to find and read if you really want to know what > they are doing. > > > > How does one manage the OCFS? > > You will not find OCFS on the ODA. It uses ACFS for the cluster file > system as well as the database files. > > > > Can a file system be mounted on both nodes, or just on one? Is this > automatic? > > Oakcli will take care of this for you. > > > > Given a complete backup (... which is a problem all of its own...), how > does one restore a database? > > Use RMAN or Enterprise Manager for this. There will be little difference > from a standard RAC database in how you backup and restore a database. > > > > Don't use centralised wallets with TDE, otherwise problems will arise -- > but what does that even mean? > > This isn't specific to the ODA. There are a number of reasons to have > local wallets in RAC -- one of the most important being that you can't ha= ve > a local only autologin wallet if it is shared with multiple nodes. > > > > You will find little argument that the documentation for ODA is mediocre > at best. This is why a number of training companies (including the one I > teach for) have developed their own content for the ODA. I think your bes= t > course of action, though, is to get yourself a couple of excellent books. > > Practical Oracle Database Appliance > > > Oracle Database Appliance: A Hands-On Guide > > > > > Seth Miller > > > > On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 10:42 PM, De DBA wrote: > > > > I've just read through that documentation, as I will shortly get the > responsibility for 2 ODA's. I would not classify the 3 software manuals a= nd > 2 hw manuals as good documentation. After reading all of it, I've got mor= e > questions than what I started out with... > > The ODAs apparently are each set up as two stand-alone servers with share= d > storage. I understand that one needs to use oakcli to create databases an= d > that this tool hides pretty much all functionality that we are used to > through dbca etc. But what does it do exactly? How does one manage the > OCFS? Can a file system be mounted on both nodes, or just on one? Is this > automatic? Given a complete backup (... which is a problem all of its > own...), how does one restore a database? Don't use centralised wallets > with TDE, otherwise problems will arise -- but what does that even mean? > Questions... > > Pointers to more complete documentation/blogs/etc. regarding managing and > patching the ODA are very welcome! > > Cheers, > Tony > > On 30/01/2016 6:38 am, Hans Forbrich wrote: > > Yes, lack of documentation was a problem at one time. > > That has significantly improved. See > http://docs.oracle.com/en/engineered-systems/ > > /Hans > > On 29/01/2016 12:54 PM, Andrew Kerber wrote: > > I have run into problem with a lack of good documentation on its use. > > Sent from my iPad > > > On Jan 29, 2016, at 1:49 PM, < > Jay.Miller@tdameritrade.com> wrote: > > Hi > > > > We just attended an ODA presentation and it looks very promising as a > solution for our non-prod testing environment as it would allow us to clo= ne > multiple instances of the gold copy test databases easily (without needin= g > to coordinate with other departments as we do now) and apply patches for > those environments quickly and easily as well. > > > > Any real life pros or cons that anyone has experienced with the appliance= ? > We=E2=80=99d keep our production and performance testing environments off= it at > least for now. > > > > > > Jay Miller > > Sr. Oracle DBA > > 201.369.8355 > > > > > > > > > > > > > --001a1142f7ae090160052ac7eeb9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi

AFIAK the ACFS snapshot depends on Grid Infrastr= ucture version, if that is 12cR1 you should be able. But of course the data= base has to reside on ACFS.

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:27 PM, De DBA <dedba@tpg.com.= au> wrote:
=20 =20 =20
Thanks Pete.

I've now seen the ODA. The database is version 11.2.0.4. The data files are stored in ASM disk groups, not on ACFS mounts. I am not sure if it is still possible to create snapshots with oakcli in this situation?

Is the snap clone functionality in EM/Cloud Control licensed with any optional pack? It sounds promising.. there is not much disk space left on the array, so a thin clone is preferable ;-)=

Cheers,
Tony


On 2/02/2016 12:45 pm, Peter Sharman wrote:
=20 =20 =20 =20

Tony

=C2=A0

I don=E2=80=99t think I saw anything about database versions in t= he thread, so there are a couple of other options you could use depending on the version:

=C2=A0

=C2=B7=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 If the DB is 12c, there is snapshotting capability built into the database itself

=C2=B7=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 From DB 10g onwards you could look at using Enterprise Manager=E2=80= =99s Snap Clone functionality which uses copy on write technology to build thin clones, optionally including masking as well.=C2= =A0 This may make it easier for you to do the snapshotting as its built into the product, which makes it less error prone than a manual snapshotting process.

=C2=A0

Let me know if you need any more details on that.

=C2=A0

Pete

3D"Oracle

Pete Sharman
Database Architect, DBaaS / DBLM
Enterprise Manager Product Suite
33 Benson Crescent CALWELL ACT 2905 AUSTRALIA

Phone: +61262924095 | | Mobile: +61414443449=C2=A0
Email: = pete.sharman@oracle.com=C2=A0 Twitter: @SharmanPete=C2=A0 LinkedIn: au.linkedin.com/in/petesharman<= /span>
Website: p= etewhodidnottweet.com

"Controlling developers is like herding cats."

Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook

=C2=A0<= /p>

"Oh no, it's not, it's much harder than that!"

Bruce Pihlamae, long term Oracle DBA

=C2=A0

From= : De DBA [mailto:dedba@tpg.com.au]
Sent: Monday, February 1, 2016 10:32 AM
To: Seth Miller <sethmiller.sm@gmail.com>
Cc: Oracle Discussion List <oracle-l@freelists.org>
Subject: Re: Anyone with experience with the Oracle Data Appliance/ODA?

=C2=A0

Seth,

Thanks for that. I haven't got access to the systems yet, jus= t reading up and preparing for the shock..

= You will not find OCFS on the ODA. It uses ACFS for the cluster file system as well as the database files.<= /u>

=C2=A0

Ah, yes, of course, it's on ASM... I understand that oakcli will create & manage fs automatically, but I'm not going to have RAC. One node is supposed to be production, whereas the other node will run dev, test and UAT. I will need to refresh the dev & test databases from production, and wonder whether I can create a snapshot, do the masking etc. and then mount the copy on the other node where it will then be used as the gold copy for the refreshes.

get yourself a couple of excellent books.


I did look at the first one, which has some famous names amongst the authors. One of the reviews that I saw mentions that it is somewhat dated? Is it still worthwhile getting even if you work with the latest hard/software?

Cheers,
Tony

On 31/01/2016 2:45 pm, Seth Miller wrote:<= u>

Tony,

=C2=A0

The ODAs apparently are each set up as two stand-alone servers with shared storage. I understand that one needs to use oakcli to create databases and that this tool hides pretty much all functionality that we are used to through dbca etc.

Yes, oakcli is the magic behind ODA but it does not preclude you from using DBCA. If you need to create a database that does not fall into one of the oakcli templates, feel free to use DBCA or any other classic method.=

=C2=A0

But what does it do exactly?

Oakcli is nothing more than a bunch of very well written perl and shell scripts that wrap the classic tools included with the Oracle database software. They are easy to find and read if you really want to know what they are doing.

=C2=A0

How does one manage the OCFS?

You will not find OCFS on the ODA. It uses ACFS for the cluster file system as well as the database files.

=C2=A0

Can a file system be mounted on both nodes, or just on one? Is this automatic?

Oakcli will take care of this for you.

=C2=A0

Given = a complete backup (... which is a problem all of its own...), how does one restore a database?

Use RMAN or Enterprise Manager for this. There will be little difference from a standard RAC database in how you backup and restore a database.

=C2=A0

Don= 9;t use centralised wallets with TDE, otherwise problems will arise -- but what does that even mean?=

This isn't specific to the ODA. There are a number of reasons to have local wallets in RAC -- one of the most important being that you can't have a local only autologin wallet if it is shared with multiple nodes.=

=C2=A0

You will find little argument that the documentation for ODA is mediocre at best. This is why a number of training companies (including the one I teach for) have developed their own content for the ODA. I think your best course of action, though, is to get yourself a couple of excellent books.

=C2=A0

Seth Miller

=C2=A0

On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 10:42 PM, De DBA <dedba@tpg.com.au> wrote:

=C2=A0

I&#= 39;ve just read through that documentation, as I will shortly get the responsibility for 2 ODA's. I would not classify the 3 software manuals and 2 hw manuals as good documentation. After reading all of it, I'v= e got more questions than what I started out with...

The ODAs apparently are each set up as two stand-alone servers with shared storage. I understand that one needs to use oakcli to create databases and that this tool hides pretty much all functionality that we are used to through dbca etc. But what does it do exactly? How does one manage the OCFS? Can a file system be mounted on both nodes, or just on one? Is this automatic? Given a complete backup (... which is a problem all of its own...), how does one restore a database? Don't use centralised wallets with TDE, otherwise problems will arise -- but what does that even mean? Questions...

Pointers to more complete documentation/blogs/etc. regarding managing and patching the ODA are very welcome!

Cheers,
Tony

On 30/01/2016 6:38 am, Hans Forbrich wrote:

Yes, lack of documentation was a problem at one time.

That has significantly improved.=C2=A0 See http:/= /docs.oracle.com/en/engineered-systems/

/Hans

On 29/01/2016 12:54 PM, Andrew Kerber wrote:=

I have run into problem with a lack of good documentation on its use.=C2= =A0

Sent from my iPad


On Jan 29, 2016, at 1:49 PM, <Jay.Miller@tdameritrade.co= m> <Jay.Miller@tdameritrade.com> wrote:

Hi

=C2=A0

We just attended an ODA presentation and it looks very promising as a solution for our non-prod testing environment as it would allow us to clone multiple instances of the gold copy test databases easily (without needing to coordinate with other departments as we do now) and apply patches for those environments quickly and easily as well.

=C2=A0

Any real life pros or cons that anyone has experienced with the appliance? We=E2=80=99d = keep our production and performance testing environments off it at least for now.<= u>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Jay Miller

Sr. Oracle DBA

201.369.8355

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0



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