Return-Path: X-Original-To: oracle-l@orafaq.com Delivered-To: oracle-l@orafaq.com Received: from puck1183.startdedicated.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by puck1183.startdedicated.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3F201961075 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2014 16:17:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from turing.freelists.org (freelists-180.iquest.net [206.53.239.180]) by puck1183.startdedicated.com (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2014 16:17:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 65556319EF; Fri, 10 Oct 2014 10:17:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at turing.freelists.org Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WmhRhnfwGQtI; Fri, 10 Oct 2014 10:17:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id CC509319A9; Fri, 10 Oct 2014 10:17:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list oracle-l); Fri, 10 Oct 2014 10:16:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D199130E6A for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2014 10:16:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Rff2RLKJWoUx for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2014 10:16:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail-wg0-f50.google.com (mail-wg0-f50.google.com [74.125.82.50]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 2D93830E38 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2014 10:15:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-wg0-f50.google.com with SMTP id a1so3983847wgh.33 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2014 07:15:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=KvtkkJVMgeMepMTl6i2rZHC5lyb5Ht3F8yrfOsLsN9A=; b=Lr2OokHmMbYn7dUo+DWm2Oc59312BDkyX4VtYL6M+4wXK0fsOAUBl5HTpiwCfVdVaL D6zAvOZqjwAE4M+s2890mNYQ/sli/LYWImIbMnAkY8iBhPmnsUjBHnCNImOKZlGaEzRm H7jtRMjZCRdokzAYnY2nKvHHGF4mUoahVHIaWPaHkhbUXtavehCGt5Q756F7eYNYDRd4 b8SJ1rDCsQnHmdn/eAm1yxcTJ2aRhORUlxTqrE4a+fMR3BVAK03ZbcoVlXjUT3y3sKIq qxIA627icO4JTE+ZVeU13QqP4v7kBY4Fo4wrcK9Y34U/c6t6yGc09ucQTw0cXpINPq7a zlOQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmC3KgKPI072k7WVrmFH6otqpTdGz/0zhvcHmNCvUf3nzuX1pXYbtclH9IMYGbh4Fz7Z8OY MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.21.212 with SMTP id x20mr5072897wie.45.1412950550155; Fri, 10 Oct 2014 07:15:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.170.197 with HTTP; Fri, 10 Oct 2014 07:15:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.170.197 with HTTP; Fri, 10 Oct 2014 07:15:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <5436DDFA.1010505@gmail.com> <218F347C-08EB-4B3C-9311-6DC704C9B08D@gmail.com> <5437346F.1050507@tpg.com.au> <85D44D05C4C24C40AFDED6C1FC0E1BDF3F62DBA4@SNSLCVWEXCH02.abl.cda.navy.mil> <5437E372.6070903@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2014 10:15:50 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: New policy on Oracle Certifications From: "Mark J. Bobak" To: niall.litchfield@gmail.com Cc: ORACLE-L , "fuzzy.graybeard@gmail.com" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b874f12a0c4fa0505122f6c X-archive-position: 56924 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: mark@bobak.net Precedence: normal Reply-To: mark@bobak.net List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: oracle-l X-List-ID: oracle-l List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: oracle-l --047d7b874f12a0c4fa0505122f6c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I give some credence to OCM, but that's all. OCP and OCA, not so much.... On Oct 10, 2014 10:07 AM, "Niall Litchfield" wrote: > They do indeed. But the 12c database certification has its own page > https://education.oracle.com/pls/web_prod-plq-dad/db_pages.getpage?page_id=653&get_params=p_id:248 > complete with upgrade tab and steps required to upgrade. The two docs are > different for the really old exams (below 9). The chap who blogged the link > today, also blogged the one exam upgrade path back in April. > https://blogs.oracle.com/certification/entry/0856_29 > > As you might have guessed my database OCP is really old, it has never been > worth my while the cost in time and money to cram for another multiple > choice exam (and the exam that I would value based on descriptions of the > tests - the master exam - has never been valued by the job market). I do > have recent experience of certification (for EM) and it hasn't changed my > view of the value of the testing much. Would I pay the 220 or so dollars a > single exam upgrade would cost me, possibly. I certainly wouldn't pay 500 > dollars to do it. > > > On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 2:47 PM, Hans Forbrich > wrote: > >> They give a lot more detail, as well as an example using 9i, at >> https://education.oracle.com/pls/web_prod-plq-dad/db_pages.getpage?page_id=770 >> >> For me, aging a cert is nothing more than meaningless admin. >> >> If the cert is tied to a version of the product, and the product ages out >> (eg: Red hat 4, Oracle DB 9i) then the associated cert is not completely >> relevant to most of the industry anyway. However, it is likely the person >> earning the cert has not lost whatever knowledge and the proficiency >> identified by the cert has not technically changed ... although using that >> proficiency may be rusty. >> >> The industry in general would be better off >> generating/ensuring/demonstrating high value of certification, and getting >> customers to understand that value - at which time, the link between cert >> and version becomes intrinsically obvious. >> >> /Hans >> >> On 10/10/2014 7:33 AM, Niall Litchfield wrote: >> >> It would be nice to know what you need to do to upgrade as well. Yes >> there's a link to the recertification requirements, via the usual >> education.oracle.com go to this page to find a link to this page to .. . >> When you get to the pdf though, it suggests that for your 9.2 example the >> upgrade path is 2 exams and therefore 2 fees. If however you go through the >> 12c certification upgrade tab, you only need one exam to upgrade, this was >> in a press release when 12c came out. It would be nice if the story could >> be straight (and the recertification was a single step). >> >> I'm all in favour of what real professions call CPD >> . I'm >> not sold on continual re-certification, nor am I convinced that a multiple >> choice test reasonably measures how current I am with industry trends and >> best practices. >> >> >> > > > -- > Niall Litchfield > Oracle DBA > http://www.orawin.info > --047d7b874f12a0c4fa0505122f6c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I give some credence to OCM, but that's all.=C2=A0 OCP a= nd OCA, not so much....

On Oct 10, 2014 10:07 AM, "Niall Litchfield= " <niall.litchfield@g= mail.com> wrote:
They do indeed. But the 12c database certification has= its own page=C2=A0https://education.oracle.com/pls/web_prod-plq-dad/db_pages.getpage?pa= ge_id=3D653&get_params=3Dp_id:248 complete with upgrade tab and ste= ps required to upgrade. The two docs are different for the really old exams= (below 9). The chap who blogged the link today, also blogged the one exam = upgrade path back in April. https://blogs.oracle.com/certification/= entry/0856_29=C2=A0

As you might have guessed my dat= abase OCP is really old, it has never been worth my while the cost in time = and money to cram for another multiple choice exam (and the exam that I wou= ld value based on descriptions of the tests - the master exam - has never b= een valued by the job market). I do have recent experience of certification= (for EM) and it hasn't changed my view of the value of the testing muc= h. Would I pay the 220 or so dollars a single exam upgrade would cost me, p= ossibly. I certainly wouldn't pay 500 dollars to do it.=C2=A0


= On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 2:47 PM, Hans Forbrich <fuzzy.graybeard@gm= ail.com> wrote:
=20 =20 =20
They give a lot more detail, as well as an example using 9i, at https://education.oracle.com/pls/web_pr= od-plq-dad/db_pages.getpage?page_id=3D770

For me, aging a cert is nothing more than meaningless admin.=C2=A0
If the cert is tied to a version of the product, and the product ages out (eg: Red hat 4, Oracle DB 9i) then the associated cert is not completely relevant to most of the industry anyway.=C2=A0 However= , it is likely the person earning the cert has not lost whatever knowledge and the proficiency identified by the cert has not technically changed ... although using that proficiency may be rusty.

The industry in general would be better off generating/ensuring/demonstrating high value of certification, and getting customers to understand that value - at which time, the link between cert and version becomes intrinsically obvious.=C2=A0
/Hans

On 10/10/2014 7:33 AM, Niall Litchfield wrote:
It would be nice to know what you need to do to upgrade as well. Yes there's a link to the recertification requirements, via the usual education.oracle.com go to this page to find a link to this page to .. . When you get to the pdf though, it suggests that for your 9.2 example the upgrade path is 2 exams and therefore 2 fees. If however you go through the 12c certification upgrade tab, you only need one exam to upgrade, this was in a press release when 12c came out. It would be nice if the story could be straight (and the recertification was a single step).=C2=A0

I'm all in favour of what real professions call CPD. I'm not sold on continual re-certification, nor am I convince= d that a multiple choice test reasonably measures how current I am with industry trends and best practices. =C2=A0 =C2=A0





--
Niall Litchf= ield
Oracle DBA
= http://www.orawin.info
--047d7b874f12a0c4fa0505122f6c-- -- http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l