From oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org Fri Oct 28 09:59:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from air891.startdedicated.com (root@localhost) by orafaq.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j9SEx5JF019390 for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 09:59:15 -0500 X-ClientAddr: 206.53.239.180 Received: from turing.freelists.org (freelists-180.iquest.net [206.53.239.180]) by air891.startdedicated.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j9SEwlvX019338 for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 09:58:53 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id ADD53211CC3; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 09:58:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09028-01; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 09:58:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 1DC0C210B93; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 09:58:39 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list oracle-l); Fri, 28 Oct 2005 09:56:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id BBA48211396 for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 09:56:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08745-07 for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 09:56:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from xproxy.gmail.com (xproxy.gmail.com [66.249.82.201]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 70D5C21136A for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 09:56:43 -0500 (EST) Received: by xproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id s8so324185wxc for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 07:56:42 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=MJlt7gqdHWfS6qG5BBcdprJ1smtiuNVmMlAp0xyzv3eDsh8iRPizBCBOQABswWZ/RZHO3p0ZvOVgw4lGALvzq3jTG57kczUwirbDmsNZQdbEvPPMTUIgUueXPGHT5thDnam4JDtMeDaO6gC65KS5CriQWD5mMq+ZCJMc8E6APfU= Received: by 10.70.20.3 with SMTP id 3mr240351wxt; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 07:56:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.131.5 with HTTP; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 07:56:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 10:56:42 -0400 From: Juan Carlos Reyes Pacheco To: "Freeman, Donald" Subject: Re: Is this Needed? Cc: dbvision@iinet.net.au, "Oracle-L (E-mail)" In-Reply-To: <51327ABA927BEF4B96590554CEA7832C29070C@enhbgpri05.pa.lcl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <51327ABA927BEF4B96590554CEA7832C29070C@enhbgpri05.pa.lcl> X-archive-position: 27741 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org Errors-To: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: juancarlosreyesp@gmail.com Precedence: normal Reply-To: juancarlosreyesp@gmail.com X-list: oracle-l X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p9 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-mailscan-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mailscan-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on air891.startdedicated.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=2.63 Don, what can I say? hmmmm. Well, when in a business there is a problem can't be solved, usually is because there is some hidden reason that support them. In any matter from service to customers to bathroom matters. For example one hidden directive could be: "One IMPORTANT advantage for us is to learn to use hidden parameter, because once we tested carefully, allows us to be faster and efficient" Now you can start discussing about it days, you demosntrate is not advisable, and you are not going to avoid the use of it, until you get that directive, that directive can be only in the mind of your manager, but sadly he is who decides. And then you must demostrate the opposite. Curiosly you find that directive are partially right, and sometimes are not really wrong, and what must be done is fix them. (I'm not suggesting you use hidden parameters, this is only one example) The you have to specify when and how use, and when and how don't use it. The you move from a postion from do, to don't to a more flexible situatiosn for boths. So the clue is to find that directive and then test. I had been, not months, I can say years trying to fix some problem I thought was wrong, and the true they were wrong (even now they are partially wrong), but too I learned some lessons about why they are not totally wrong. The point is if you take the time to solve it, you can learn something, and if you remember the other person is human and intelligent, and treats him in that way. Usually persisting to get a solution, you learn something, they learn something, and helps you grow in that business. But this is only if you solve the problem. This is not easy . And frequently implies to create politics to get things work fine. For example, I'm Don Freeman, and you are your boss; I'll send you and email or better a written document (to keep a copy for the future, about what I said and the answer I received): "Mr Boss, I understand this is important for you, but we can't continuing working in this way following guidelines without having clear why do this. So 1) Are we going to continue doing things without evidence they are beneficial. 2) Are we going to start to stablish procedures and politics, about the requirements to create new tasks, and the method to evaluate the benefits on old task. (As you see here, the first step is not if you want to do that task, or not; the point is the attitute, about all this kind of tasks; if he says 1), then you will have to wait some week and insist in it; if he choose 2) then you have a lot of work to do, because is now you are responsible of that, and if some dozens situations like this repeat in time, and you get successful , keep in mind to ask som increment in your salary :) Don, You solve it or you suffer with it there is no other way. -- http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l