From oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org Thu Mar 3 13:58:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from air891.startdedicated.com (root@localhost) by orafaq.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j23Jw0wV022997 for ; Thu, 3 Mar 2005 13:58:00 -0600 X-ClientAddr: 206.53.239.180 Received: from turing.freelists.org (freelists-180.iquest.net [206.53.239.180]) by air891.startdedicated.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j23Jvxem022993 for ; Thu, 3 Mar 2005 13:57:59 -0600 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 2C1D27DD14; Thu, 3 Mar 2005 13:56:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07606-02; Thu, 3 Mar 2005 13:56:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A0D697DD7B; Thu, 3 Mar 2005 13:56:32 -0500 (EST) From: "Joel Garry" To: "'rachel carmichael'" , "Joel Garry" Cc: Subject: RE: Case study for interviewing Oracle DBA Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 10:54:45 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <2e71187305030304457c5725d1@mail.gmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-archive-position: 16909 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org Errors-To: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: joelgarry@anabolicinc.com Precedence: normal Reply-To: joelgarry@anabolicinc.com X-list: oracle-l X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p9 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on air891.startdedicated.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=ham version=2.60 X-Spam-Level: Rachel Carmichael wrote: >Unfortunately, to avoid the overquoting, I'm gonna have to snip out >amost everything... here goes And I thought I was being a good boy by not quoting all of the posts I was responding to! :-) More response below: >On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 15:55:21 -0800, Joel Garry >wrote: >> rachel carmichael wrote: >> >> The criteria are important in the sense of "you must meet them to get >> your foot in the door," but not in the sense of "do they make sense." >> I've seen some criteria that are just plain wrong. Criteria that reject >> those who would do best in the job are bad criteria. That is why it is >> best to simply skip the HR department and go directly to the hiring >> manager. That's what networking is all about. That rare beast, "good >> headhunters" (as opposed to order clerks) do that too. >> > Company mergers led to my being in a position of "you will be laid >off some time in the near future". While talking with a friend of mine >about it (he'd gone through the same thing with me at my prior >company), he decided that recruiting me would be a good thing for his >current company. Okay, fair enough, we skipped the HR initial crap, >saved the company money (no recruiter's fees). EXCEPT, HR still has to >be in the process at some point, and now they are annoyed with both me >and my friend because "we did this backwards". Do I start the >interview with HR at a disadvantage? You bet. Will it hurt me? Still >to be determined, we are still in the "trying to find a date that >everyone can manage for the interview" stage. Them being annoyed is silly. There should be some way to turn this lemon into lemonade, though. For example, you (or more likely, your friend or his mgr) might suggest an agenda for the meeting, putting into a positive light that the meeting can be short and to the point (as they don't have to bother with explaining what the company does and what they are looking for); that at least one current employee already knows/feels that you are a good fit so you don't have to play any games about that, and so on. The obvious landmine is that they probably have some pet methodology for determining good fit and whether you are not an insane child molester, keeping things warm and professional can hopefully sooth the rumpled feathers, having trespassed on their domain. You don't want to get into a p*ing match with HR, plenty of time for that later :-) Most companies have a policy about referrals, did your friend not follow some rules? If the rules arbitrarily make it more difficult for this type of situation, they should be modified. If your friend goofed, that can be good, showing proper remorse and deferrence could go far towards mollifying HR and letting them save face - HR then gets to be benevolent towards you, secretly happy (or just plain in denial) about not having to admit they were silly. -- http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l