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Home -> Community -> Mailing Lists -> Oracle-L -> RE: ASP DBAs
You got it, G:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/11/20/lost_generation_of_bosses_blamed/
The old schoolers are playing a rigged game and those "arbitrary" rules are not the accidental. When you finish those 18-hour shifts and the work is done ask yourself how many times those rules find you on your way to that next IT death march. It isn't accidental, kids, and the harder you fight the more they win...assuming you keep trying to prove just how smart and talented you are (if you actually quit when the work is done, all the better).
Personally, I have found a good dose of self-termination right after old man river has promised the world to his immediate superiors works quite nicely (I do some good work, set up the old schooler to promise that last big win, then walk without even offering a two week notice). On the other hand, a six-month hiatus just earned me an offer to work full time from home and a rate of $80/hr. In any case, I will still make certain to take a few shots at Mr. and Mrs. Old School before the contract is done.
It is an ugly business and those of us who are least talented are more than happy to comply with old man river. Just last week a UNIX Administrator was terminated from Arizona Public Service for not attending those ever-important meetings. He had hit the old school wall, had been systematically harassed, then terminated by the same good friend who recruited him from ON Semiconductor.
Without the talent (you) the old schoolers fail. Absent the "marks" and that next project whether it be an Oracle data warehouse, web application, or simply installing the software (still fascinates me how many veteran DBA's cannot perform an Oracle Solaris installation, for example) simply fails. In contrast, do the work for old man river or arrive to "save the day" and you will mysteriously find yourself out the door before the CEO, CFO, Finance Manager, or even CIO ever learns your name...guaranteed.
In short, do your own PR and make a point of self-promoting. Otherwise, you will find yourself hating technology, hating your bosses), and simply becoming another casualty of an industry that systematically exploits young talent and lines up the next sucker. The old schoolers need to go. I have an article pending publication in HBR regarding the same subject. It is much more academic and objective yet the point is the same.
Most importantly, it isn't an accident and those arbitrary rules are an incredibly successful weapon against change or, as some might term it, progress. The Luddites had their day it is time for them to head to that IT Hospice before the United States loses its predominance in IT.
Ellis
-----Original Message-----
From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org
[mailto:oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org]On Behalf Of Bob Lofstrand
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 10:04 AM
To: 'oracle-l_at_freelists.org'
Subject: RE: ASP DBAs
I came from an internal IT shop to an ASP. One might think that the ASP is much more challenging and hectic. In my case it was the other way around. Dramatically! I believe it is due to standards and well defined procedures. Is everything perfect here? No. There are challenges and things that need to be worked on but as I said, it is dramatically better. Now I am not talking about having red tape for it's own sake, and we do have a bit of that, but when people know what is expected of them and know what to expect from others the whole thing move along much smoother. Imagine a football team without procedures. They call them plays. They would look like idiots and get booed off the field. I have never understood why somthing similar doesn't happend with business.
I am not saying this to critize DBAs. I have been in a position of trying to 'encourge' the use of standards. It didn't happen. The developers did what ever they pleased. It was chaotic. Of course, when the problems came, the DBAs got blamed. We had no advocate in management. The result was that a team that at one point had an aggregate tenure of over 20 years, experienced a 150% turnover in a two year period.
An ASP is very customer driven. If the customer wants, the customer gets. The only way to keep this from turning into utter chaos is to have well defined procedures, standards and timetables. To put it more bluntly, you have to have your sh** together at the organization level. Things don't happen just because they have to and someone important demands that it does. Things happen because they have been planned for. They happen because everyone knows where they are suppose to be and what they need to do. That happens when you have strong, intelligent leadership. The ship sails or sinks because of it's captain.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mohan, Ross [mailto:RMohan_at_arbinet.com]
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 9:57 AM
To: oracle-l_at_freelists.org
Subject: RE: ASP DBAs
I am experiencing the "you should really be in here whether or not you just spend 27 hours on line or not" effect right now. The level of cluelessness is rather stunning.
I do prefer the life of a consultant -- at least you get reviled routinely and predictably, and the compensation matches.
As for standards, yea, I like the only point for them is to simplify/speed repeated activities. Good lord, why would one create rules otherwise (in this context, 'natch)
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Gorman [mailto:tim_at_sagelogix.com]
Sent: Sun 7/11/2004 4:18 AM
To: oracle-l_at_freelists.org
Cc:
Subject: Re: ASP DBAs
My opinion, for what it is worth...
The creation of standards has no purpose for its own sake. Rather, the
clear purpose is the wholesale automation of regularly-scheduled and routine
tasks. Can't do that if each database is a "customized" configuration. Automation in turn leads to constant improvement of one's skills, as freedom
from lesser tasks allows more rewarding higher-function tasks and research. Personally, I've found work as a DBA for an ASP to be very educational. Just have to dump Korn shell and learn Perl to truly achieve spiritual creaminess, I¹m told...
On the other hand, the hours are excruciating and the impact on personal time is significant. If all of the routine tasks are automated, then you have to learn (and have permission!) to grab sleep and personal time when you can get it, because when things go wrong, they often do so in an extravagant way. One mistake I've made in the past was to keep a "regular" 9-5 schedule regardless of whether automation left me with nothing to do. Of course, some of that time can be filled with the "improvement" activities
I was mentioning, but it is important to realize that the long hours waiting
for a tape restore to spin are good for that too. Many managers are uncomfortable with DBAs not being "at work" during regular business hours. Then, when trouble hits, generally during off-hours, I end up with 40-hr days, and it's getting tougher and tougher to shake those off...
Just my $0.02...
on 7/10/04 8:53 PM, Mohan, Ross at RMohan_at_arbinet.com wrote:
> Dennis,
>
> thanks for thoughtful and thought-provoking reply.
>
> I guess there is more volatility ( new apps, upgrades, migrations, new
> customers, etc) and
> less volatility (tighter standards maintenance, more teamwork, fewer "just
> this once" databases, fixes, etc)
>
> I'd imagine ASP DBAs need more/better in the way of monitoring and
> alerting.....and going out
> on a limb, i'd imagine they are *more* likely to do SA and DBA work --
can't
> back this up by
> experience as I have none, but my gut tells me that.
>
> My concern is that life as an ASP DBA would be a hamster wheel tedium of
> upgrades, patches and answering the same question for seventy different
> clients...and that it would be harder to fix problems
> because of the isolated/distributed nature of the clients, and the fact
that
> they'd be more likely to
> be using canned crApplications.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [mailto:DWILLIAMS_at_LIFETOUCH.COM
<mailto:DWILLIAMS_at_LIFETOUCH.COM> ]
> Sent: Fri 7/9/2004 8:58 PM
> To: 'oracle-l_at_freelists.org'
> Cc:
> Subject: RE: ASP DBAs
>
>
>
> Ross
> I'm hardly an expert, but based on my limited exposure to ASP DBAs, I'll
> give my opinions and that may provoke some more expert opinion.
> I think the major differences at an ASP (and this may depend on the
> specific ASP) is that you may be more visible. If the ASP is hosting
> specific applications then you need to be expert in how those applications
> interact with the database. Presumably handling a variety of versions of
the
>
> application, migrating customers between versions, etc. If the ASP is
> offering the database as a product, then you will be more visible to the
> customers.
> In theory you are supporting many databases. So creating standards so all
>
> the databases look alike could be key. Or obeying the standards of a large
> team. Most of us support many databases, but my assumption is that at an
ASP
>
> the situation would be more volatile, bringing up new customers, moving
> customers from one server to another, etc.
> To me the key issue is that the customer needs to have clearly
> communicated what you are and what you aren't doing. Most of the
unhappiness
>
> results when the customer thinks you are taking care of all issues and
your
> understanding is that you are taking care of a limited amount.
> Monitoring is a big deal at least being able to tell a good story for
> potential customers.
> Enjoy working weird hours and weekends.
>
> Dennis Williams
> DBA
> Lifetouch, Inc.
> dwilliams_at_lifetouch.com
> I said it "looked" clear - Riddick
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org
> [mailto:oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org
<mailto:oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org>
<mailto:oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org <mailto:oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org>
>
> ]On Behalf Of Mohan, Ross
> Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 10:19 AM
> To: oracle-l_at_freelists.org
> Subject: RE: ASP DBAs
>
>
> LoL...nice....
> Yes, Application Service Provider. I was trying to be hip and fit in with
> the in-crowd
> by using acronyms and got myself into a RAC of trouble. I guess I'll just
> have to get
> into my yoga pose and hum "OEMMMM" until things get better.
> But...on topic...i am trying to find out more about the life of a hardcore
> ASP DBA.
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