From oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org Mon Jun 28 13:40:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from air189.startdedicated.com (root@localhost) by orafaq.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i5SIdio09805 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 2004 13:39:54 -0500 X-ClientAddr: 206.53.239.180 Received: from turing.freelists.org (freelists-180.iquest.net [206.53.239.180]) by air189.startdedicated.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i5SIdW609788 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 2004 13:39:42 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 572BC72C558; Mon, 28 Jun 2004 13:20:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19358-78; Mon, 28 Jun 2004 13:20:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9D20972C6DE; Mon, 28 Jun 2004 13:20:45 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list oracle-l); Mon, 28 Jun 2004 13:19:20 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: oracle-l@freelists.org Delivered-To: oracle-l@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 552FB72CB5E for ; Mon, 28 Jun 2004 13:19:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19485-13 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 2004 13:19:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from ppoone1.ppoone.com (ppoone1.ppoone.com [66.54.156.196]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9BF3172C8AE for ; Mon, 28 Jun 2004 13:19:18 -0500 (EST) Received: by ppoone1.ppoone.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 28 Jun 2004 13:41:41 -0500 Message-ID: From: Kevin Lange To: "'oracle-l@freelists.org'" Subject: RE: Newbies welcome, or not? Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 13:41:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at freelists.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-archive-position: 3847 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org Errors-To: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: klange@ppoone.com Precedence: normal Reply-To: oracle-l@freelists.org X-list: oracle-l X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at freelists.org One thing I liked about this list in the past is that folks never used to turn any questions away. It did not mater whether or not the person was a Newbie or an Expert. Their question was answered in a courtious and respectful manner. I kind of wonder where that list went to. There are names on this list of people who's books and advice I use every day. You have my respect for your abilities in this field. Unfortunately, some of you are fast losing that respect because of the way you treat people who you consider 'lesser' in knowledge than yourself. Why don't we try to teach people to do things right instead of ripping them apart because of mistakes that we see as 'obvious'. All the experts here were newbies at one time. Maybe its a good thing that not everyone laughed in your face at the idiotic things you did before you learned beter. -----Original Message----- From: Jared.Still@radisys.com [mailto:Jared.Still@radisys.com] Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 1:21 PM To: oracle-l@freelists.org Subject: Newbies welcome, or not? > > ANYBODY who would type ANYTHING in as root WITHOUT knowing what it > does EXACTALLY should not have root access, is not responsable > enough to have root access and needs to WAKE UP and LEARN the "man" command. > > good lord, people, what happened to personal responsibility and > professionalism? > It would seem that many of us have forgotten that Scott Adams gets fodder for Dilbert from real life. As Mark Powell has pointed out, folks get thrown into the position of DBA and/or Unix admin without much prior experience, and they don't have much say in the matter, short of finding new employment. That is not always an option. They may not yet have a good concept of how unix works, and don't yet appreciate the power of root. So, are we saying we should not answer newbie questions for folks that don't have a clue, and yet they are required to fill the position? Even pointing someone to the correct section of the documentation can be extremely useful. I started with Oracle 7.0.12. The documentation was quite a bit smaller than now, but it wasn't always clear which doc I needed. The docs are now 20k+ pages for all the Oracle online docs. The index and search capabilities are useful, but hardly infallible. Is it too much trouble for us to point someone in the right direction? How about the less experienced listers? I often ignore simple questions, knowing that this gives an opportunity for junior folks to participate in the list, and help out those that have even less experience than they do. So, what's the consensus? Should be welcome folks with little experience, or make it clear that they should come back when they know what they're doing? My vote is for trying to be helpful, even to those with annoyingly simple questions. If I don't care to answer, I leave it for someone else. Jared ---------------------------------------------------------------- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe send email to: oracle-l-request@freelists.org put 'unsubscribe' in the subject line. -- Archives are at http://www.freelists.org/archives/oracle-l/ FAQ is at http://www.freelists.org/help/fom-serve/cache/1.html ----------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe send email to: oracle-l-request@freelists.org put 'unsubscribe' in the subject line. -- Archives are at http://www.freelists.org/archives/oracle-l/ FAQ is at http://www.freelists.org/help/fom-serve/cache/1.html -----------------------------------------------------------------