Return-Path: Received: from ensim.rackshack.net (root@localhost) by orafaq.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0MJChO29390 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 13:12:43 -0600 X-ClientAddr: 209.68.248.164 Received: from newsfeed.cts.com (newsfeed.cts.com [209.68.248.164]) by ensim.rackshack.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0MJChp29385 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 13:12:43 -0600 Received: from fatcity.UUCP (uucp@localhost) by newsfeed.cts.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id HAA70659; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 07:55:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by fatcity.com (26-Feb-2001/v1.0g-b72/bab) via UUCP id 005374F9; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 06:28:51 -0800 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 06:28:51 -0800 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L X-Comment: Oracle RDBMS Community Forum X-Sender: "Ruth Gramolini" Sender: root@fatcity.com Reply-To: ORACLE-L@fatcity.com Errors-To: ML-ERRORS@fatcity.com From: "Ruth Gramolini" Subject: Re: question about rman Organization: Fat City Network Services, San Diego, California X-ListServer: v1.0g, build 72; ListGuru (c) 1996-2001 Bruce A. Bergman Precedence: bulk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_012D_01C2C1F8.3B066440" ------=_NextPart_000_012D_01C2C1F8.3B066440 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable question about rmanI am jumping in late on this thread and may be way = off the mark but I do all my backups to disk and put them on tape using = the OS backup facility. When recovery is needed I just put the = backupsets back on the original disk. Then rman isn't confused at all. = If omniback can put the files onto tape at a later time, you can still = do backup whenever you want. I work for the State of Vermont, and = budget contraints force us to find the least expensive solution. Rman, = tape, and the OS backup software are the cheapest way and it works. I = have recovered many times using this method. =20 Ruth ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Chris Stephens=20 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L=20 Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 3:04 PM Subject: RE: question about rman The problem is that if we try and backup to tape, we have to wait in = the queue. Depending on what is already there, we may have to wait a = number of hours before RMAN has the opportunity write data to the tape. = Believe me, we have tried to devise ways to predict when we could = actually write to tape but the sys admin has stated over and over that = he has no control over when a tape is available due to the queueing. In = a cold backup this implies unacceptable downtime. In a hot backup it = means that the database will be backed up over a very long period of = time. So if we first backup to disk and then let omniback take the data to = tape whenever it gets around to it, we'll still be able to due a = recovery through RMAN if the necessary files are on tape (a place that = RMAN is unaware of). note: obviously we are going to have to test this but i'd like to know = that it is possible before i go through the trouble of coordinating = something with the sys admins. thank you. -----Original Message----- From: Freeman Robert - IL [mailto:FREEMANR@tusc.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:31 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: question about rman I guess my first question is why not just backup to tape through the = Omniback MML layer? Or, if you prefer to go to disk you can backup to = disk with RMAN and then backup the backupset to tape through the MML = with RMAN again. If you try to restore from an RMAN backup, and the = required backup pieces are not there, RMAN will let you know. HTH, Robert Robert G. Freeman Technical Management Consultant TUSC - The Oracle Experts www.tusc.com 904.708.5076 Cell (it's everywhere that I am!) Author of several books you can find on Amazon.com!=20 -----Original Message----- From: Chris Stephens [mailto:ChrisStephens@affina.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:45 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: question about rman I could test this myself but that would require coordination with = the system administrators and they always seem to think their time is = too important for testing. :) i would like to implement RMAN in and 8.1.7.2 oltp environment and = 9.2.0 warehouse environment. We use Omniback as an enterprise wide = backup solution. Don't know if this is version specific so I thought I = would mention. Here's the question.... Currently we are doing os level backups for both environments. We = take the backup to disk and then omniback backs up the mountpoints we = write to. A problem we have is that we are unable to predict when = omniback will get to our backup mountpoints due to the fact that there is a queue that serializes our backups = and other servers are place in that queue ahead of us. This is a factor = in our warehouse environment as it makes the downtime of a cold backup = unpredictable. In the oltp environment this makes the length of backups = unpredictable and GREATLY increases redo generation. The only option we = have is to first backup to disk. So here's my problem with RMAN...if we backup to disk through rman = and then omniback takes that data to tape and the backup mountpoints are = overwritten the very next time a backup is taken then RMAN's ability to = find the necessary files is compromised if the redundancy is set to = anything >1 (or whatever recovery window the translates to). So if I = try and restore a database in either environment and RMAN can't find the = necesary file(s) will it return a message asking where those files are? = ...at which point i would call the sys admins to restore the particular = file. or would i be hosed? thank you very much for any responses.=20 (i plan on buying 9i rman soon but didn't want to wait on this)=20 chris=20 (wishing for dedicated tape drives)=20 ------=_NextPart_000_012D_01C2C1F8.3B066440 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable question about rman
I am jumping in late on this thread and may be way = off the=20 mark but I do all my backups to disk and put them on tape using the OS = backup=20 facility.  When recovery is needed I just put the backupsets back = on the=20 original disk.  Then rman isn't confused at all.  If omniback = can put=20 the files onto tape at a later time, you can still do backup whenever = you=20 want.  I work for the State of Vermont, and budget contraints force = us to=20 find the least expensive solution.  Rman, tape, and the OS backup = software=20 are the cheapest way and it works.  I have recovered many times = using this=20 method. 
 
Ruth
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Chris=20 Stephens
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 = 3:04=20 PM
Subject: RE: question about = rman

The=20 problem is that if we try and backup to tape, we have to wait in the=20 queue.  Depending on what is already there, we may have to wait a = number=20 of hours before RMAN has the opportunity write data to the tape.  = Believe=20 me, we have tried to devise ways to predict when we could actually = write to=20 tape but the sys admin has stated over and over that he has no control = over=20 when a tape is available due to the queueing.  In a cold backup = this=20 implies unacceptable downtime.  In a hot backup it means that the = database will be backed up over a very long period of=20 time.
 
So=20 if we first backup to disk and then let omniback take the data to tape = whenever it gets around to it, we'll still be able to due a recovery = through=20 RMAN if the necessary files are on tape (a place that RMAN is unaware=20 of).
 
note: obviously we are going to have to = test this but=20 i'd like to know that it is possible before i go through the trouble = of=20 coordinating something with the sys admins.
 
thank you.
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Freeman Robert - = IL=20 [mailto:FREEMANR@tusc.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 = 1:31=20 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list = ORACLE-L
Subject: RE:=20 question about rman

I=20 guess my first question is why not just backup to tape through the = Omniback=20 MML layer? Or, if you prefer to go to disk you can backup to disk = with RMAN=20 and then backup the backupset to tape through the MML with RMAN = again.=20 If you try to restore from an RMAN backup, and the required backup = pieces=20 are not there, RMAN will let you know.
 
HTH,
 
Robert
 

Robert G. Freeman
Technical=20 Management Consultant
TUSC - The Oracle Experts=20 www.tusc.com
904.708.5076 Cell (it's everywhere that I = am!)
Author of=20 several books you can find on Amazon.com!

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Stephens = [mailto:ChrisStephens@affina.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January = 21,=20 2003 10:45 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list=20 ORACLE-L
Subject: question about = rman

I could test this myself but that would require=20 coordination with the system administrators and they always seem = to think=20 their time is too important for testing. :)

i would like to implement RMAN in and 8.1.7.2 = oltp=20 environment and 9.2.0 warehouse environment.  We use Omniback = as an=20 enterprise wide backup solution.  Don't know if this is = version=20 specific so I thought I would mention.  Here's the=20 question....


Currently we are doing os level backups for both = environments.  We take the backup to disk and then omniback = backs up=20 the mountpoints we write to.  A problem we have is that we = are unable=20 to predict when omniback will get to our backup = mountpoints

due to the fact that there is a queue that = serializes our=20 backups and other servers are place in that queue ahead of = us.  This=20 is a factor in our warehouse environment as it makes the downtime = of a=20 cold backup unpredictable.  In the oltp environment this = makes the=20 length of backups unpredictable and GREATLY increases redo=20 generation.  The only option we have is to first backup to=20 disk.

So here's my problem with RMAN...if we backup to = disk=20 through rman and then omniback takes that data to tape and the = backup=20 mountpoints are overwritten the very next time a backup is taken = then=20 RMAN's ability to find the necessary files is compromised if the=20 redundancy is set to anything >1 (or whatever recovery window = the=20 translates to).  So if I try and restore a database in either = environment and RMAN can't find the necesary file(s) will it = return a=20 message asking where those files are?  ...at which point i = would call=20 the sys admins to restore the particular file.  or would i be = hosed?

thank you very much for any responses. =
(i plan on buying 9i rman soon but didn't want to wait on = this)

chris

(wishing for dedicated tape drives)=20

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