Re: (Fwd/2)

Hello Eric

I think that you misunderstood.
<snip>
| Ellison probably took the money and ran when this | became apparent to him and many others. I know I did.

So (regardless of whether Ellison is a good example, or not), do you think that there should be *any* accountability for the social damage caused by greed driven unethical accounting practices? </snip>

He wrote about investors that have stock and sell them when they see that the market sink. What this have to do with shady or outright criminal accounting practices?

I agree with you that whoever is responsible for cooking the books should have to pay, from his own money, all the people that got hurt by this.

Yechiel Adar
Mehish
----- Original Message -----
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 7:13 AM

> trying again...
>
> ------- Forwarded message follows -------
> Responsibility / Re: OT
> Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 15:14:39 -0400
>
>
>
> | Original Message:
> | -----------------
> | From: Johnson, M=2E
> | Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 10:23:21 -0800
> | To: ORACLE-L_at_fatcity=2Ecom
> | Subject: RE: McCain on Larry Ellison and Corporate
> Responsibility / Re: =
> OT
>
>
> | Not defending Ellison for anything,=20
>
> Understood
>
>
> | but it appears
> | McCain is just another politician who is only interested
> | in his future and he constantly takes on these "reform
> | ideas" and just makes the matter worse
>
>
> That sounds really cynical to me. Are you just speculating, or
> do you have
> any info to back that up?
>
> Note that Oracle/Ellison attempted to buy off politicians here
> in
> Sacramento in order to stop the JLAC (legislative) audit of
> Oracle's ELA
> with the State of California
>
> Note that Senator Sarbanes was on the same TV program ("Meet
> the Press") as
> McCain, and generally agreed with McCain that there is a
> horrible lack of
> corporate responsibility, and that reforming the institutions
> designed to
> protect the public's interests has been made extremely
> difficult by the
> influence of corrupt lobbyists and lack of effective campaign
> reform
>
> Tim Russert (a rare TV journalist with some integrity) and the
> Senators
> spent most of their time discussing the issue of putting
> executive stock
> options on the "expense" sheets so as to more correctly
> reflect
> profitability (or lack thereof)
>
> Do you think it better serves the investment community for
> sleazy corrupt
> executives to be able to hide their shenanighans from analysts
> and
> investors?
>
>
> | Everyone should accept the fact that we are in a bear
> | market and as such all the boats go down
>
>
> Argh, that is the problem, when you have these outrageous
> examples of
> greedy, corrupt corporate executives cashing out (***AFTER
> COOKING THE
> BOOKS***), leaving others to sink
>
>
> | Everyone should have been smart enough to sell stocks and
> | put their money into cash or better yet short stocks
> | when it was very clear that in the Fall of 2000 after the
> | initial March 2000 sell off that we were going into
> | a prolonged Bear market
>
>
> "Should have been" !?!?!
>
> That isn't really the issue. As mentioned above, the issue was
> how excess
> greed played out when "the books were cooked" to create a
> false impression
> of profitability
>
>
> | Ellison probably took the money and ran when this
> | became apparent to him and many others. I know I did.
>
>
> So (regardless of whether Ellison is a good example, or not),
> do you think
> that there should be *any* accountability for the social
> damage caused by
> greed driven unethical accounting practices?
>
> (fwiw, I'm sympathetic to libertarian/"Chicago school" free
> market
> ideology, but I fear that like its opposite, leftist
> utopianism, when taken
> to extremes, it doesn't work all that well in the "real
> world".)
>
> regards,
> ep
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 5:53 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> OT - unix
>
>
> My understanding is that this was the very first time Ellison
> had ever sol=
> d
> Oracle stock, in over 25 years of the company's existence, in
> 2000, which =
> is
> the occasion that McCain (and you) are referring to=2E As you
> might be aw=
> are,
> there was a far greater "opportunity" for Ellison to "cash
> out" and leave
> Oracle dangling in 1990, when the price dropped from around
> $20 to $6 almo=
> st
> overnight after some financial-earning restatements=2E On
> that occasion, =
> he
> would certainly have had prior knowledge of what was going to
> happen, to p=
> ut
> it mildly=2E In 2000, any foreknowledge of a long-term
> downturn (26 month=
> s
> and counting?) would have been worth far more than $700m,
> especially to
> someone holding several billions in equities=2E=2E=2E
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <ORACLE-
> L_at_fatcity=2Ecom>
> Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2002 10:13 PM
> unix
>
>
> > Speaking of herds, or at least what is left behind on
> > the ground after they pass:
> >
> > on "Meet the Press" (TV program), Senator John McCain
> > said that Larry Ellison cashed out $700,000,000 of his
> > Oracle stocks just before they lost most of their
> > value (sarcasm: I'm sure he is planning on plowing it
> > back into the company, especially improving quality in
> > OWS and Metalink)=2E
> >
> > regards,
> > ep
> >
> >
> > On 14 Jul 2002 at 16:28, Alex wrote:
> >
> > Date sent: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 16:28:18 -0800
> > the future
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity=2Ecom>
> >
> > > =2E=2E=2E As far as DB vendors targeting linux they move in herds and
=
> have
> > > just finished their linux port from when "linux" was a buzzword=2E
> >
> > =2E=2E
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ------
> mail2web - Check your email from the web at
> http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E
>
>
>
> ------- End of forwarded message -------
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Eric D. Pierce
> INET: eric_d_pierce_at_pacbell.net
>
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-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Yechiel Adar
  INET: adar76_at_inter.net.il

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