Message-ID: <F001.00487CE1.20020625160857@fatcity.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 16:08:57 -0800
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From: Rachel Carmichael <wisernet100@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: the ora certified masters cert, yet again
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one being a marketing venue, the other being a place where you can
learn from ohers experiences.

and to clarify further, if you are a lousy presenter, giving bad
information, you get horrible scores and, since the selection process
is not blind, don't get asked back to present again.

So having a list of many presentations, at various conferences, can be
an indicator of knowledge.


--- "Karniotis, Stephen" <Stephen_Karniotis@compuware.com> wrote:
> Let me clarify something.  It was at Oracle Open World, not IOUG-A
> Live
> where these presentations were made.  Please do not confuse the two!!
> 
> Thank You
> 
> Stephen P. Karniotis
> Product Architect
> Compuware Corporation
> Direct:	(248) 865-4350
> Mobile:	(248) 408-2918
> Email:	Stephen.Karniotis@Compuware.com
> Web:	www.compuware.com
> 
>  -----Original Message-----
> Sent:	Tuesday, June 25, 2002 5:41 PM
> To:	Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject:	RE: the ora certified masters cert, yet again
> 
> A tip o' the hat to all authors and presenters.  However writing a
> book
> makes no one an expert on anything.  There are Oracle books
> containing
> fabulous stories of what happens when a tablespace is put in backup
> mode,
> and while quite entertaining they do not further a correct
> understanding of
> Oracle.  Authors take the time to put what they believe to be true on
> paper.
> It's often what they have been told, not what they have learned on
> their
> own.  Richard Niemiec's sp? tuning books have been trashed recently
> because
> they tout buffer hit ratios; however there was a consensus in the
> Oracle
> community that these were important.  It took Cary Millsap's paper
> and a new
> tuning paradigm introduced by Gaja Vaidyanatha, Kirtikumar Deshpande,
> and
> John Kostelac Jr. to direct us to something more useful.  Personally,
> I was
> using wait events before Gaja's book, but I was also trying to keep
> the hit
> ratio's high as a part of the "consensus".  If I had written a book
> before
> seeing Cary's paper!
> !
> , it
> would have touted hit ratios.  I don't believe "Oracle 101
> Performance
> Tuning" is a perfect book;  it doesn't properly address data
> collection
> needs. 
> 
> Why would authorship and presentations be worth more than an OCP? 
> The OCP
> says that you have achieved a standard.  One can debate whether that
> standard has any meaning.  There is no standard at all for
> authors/presenters.  It does seem however that many OCP holders know
> far
> less than their certificate would indicate, and some authors are more
> expert
> than their books convey.  A good author of Oracle tomes and
> presentations
> needs a clearer understanding of the subject matter than an OCP. 
> Good
> authors hold themselves to higher standards than needed to be called
> an OCP.
> I just want to point out that not all authors are good authors, and
> that
> there are OCP holders who have not written books that are as if not
> more
> knowlegeable than  most authors.  There are people who have done
> neither who
> know as much if not more than both.
> 
> The OCM was introduced for two reasons.  Oracle is in business to
> make money
> and wanted another revenue stream, and the standards one must meet to
> become
> an OCP were being questioned.   Unfortunately at last years IOUG-A
> conference the six people who were given their OCM's were touted as
> the six
> most knowledgeable Oracle experts in th world.  The awardees did not
> include
> Gaja, nor Kirti, nor Anjo Kolk, nor Steve Adams, nor Jonathan Lewis,
> nor Guy
> Harrison, nor Larry Elkins...  Indeed  only one person on the awarded
> the
> OCM would I have placed in any top six list, and that's Paul Dorsey
> who is
> extremely knowlegeable concerning  Oracle's development tools.  There
>  were
> some awardees I know nothing about.  Despite this over-the-top
> rollout, the
> OCM under proper care could become a certification with real meaning,
> by
> that I mean more important than being an author or a presenter
> 
> 
> Ian MacGregor
> Stanford Linear Acclerator Center
> ian@SLAC.Stanford.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 11:17 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Rachel has really baiting me on this one, as she is well aware of my
> position on certifications, especially Oracle's.  I watched some of
> this
> thread start and laughed.  
> 
> Vendor-sponsored certifications are no more valuable to the
> marketplace than
> the software they claim is 100% bug free.  This is especially true
> when the
> vendor "pushes" the certification out to the market for next to
> nothing and
> then complains that the industry sees no value in it because SOOOOOO
> many
> people have it.  Who's to blame for that.  Why do you think Microsoft
> reduced the number of organizations that offer MCS* certifications? 
> There
> are TOOOO MANY.  Our company offered MCS* certifications, including a
> complete training program, as required and it brought NO VALUE.  
> 
> Look at companies like Novell, etc.  Originally, Novel's
> certifications,
> CNA, CNE, & CNAE, were offered at a high cost and only the few and
> proud had
> obtained it.  The original certification exams, CSP, CCP, etc. that
> were
> offered by third-party institutes have also lost their value as
> anyone with
> a book and time can pass them.  It's too bad because certifications
> DID mean
> something in the 1980s and early 1990s.
> 
> Oracle is crying in its own spoiled milk on this one.  They caused
> the
> problem and now they are trying to fix it by ramming a new program
> down our
> throats.  Think about it folks.  You have to pay an additional $ 2000
> for
> what?  The only reason people will take this ridiculous path is to
> achieve a
> higher level in the Oracle Partner Program.  No More. No less.  
> 
> If you really think that having an OCM or OCP or other certification
> is
> going to make the difference in you getting a job, you have REAL
> problems.
> As far as Rachel substituting books and presentations for
> certifications, I
> agree with her.  As a personal friend of hers ( I hope still after
> this long
> email), I also do not have my certification because my experience
> shows:
> 25+ presentations around the world, recognized industry expert, and
> 17+
> years doing the job.  
> 
> OK.  I'm off the soap box.  Get off the certification box now before
> it
> collapses and Oracle builds another one.  You know:  If Oracle would
> concentrate on building better quality software with the time spent
> on this
> stupid certification program, all of us would be better off!
> 
> Thank You
> 
> Stephen P. Karniotis
> Product Architect
> Compuware Corporation
> Direct:	(248) 865-4350
> Mobile:	(248) 408-2918
> Email:	Stephen.Karniotis@Compuware.com
> Web:	www.compuware.com
> 
>  -----Original Message-----
> Sent:	Tuesday, June 25, 2002 12:19 PM
> To:	Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject:	Re: the ora certified masters cert, yet again
> 
=== message truncated ===


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Author: Rachel Carmichael
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