RE: recruiters. Aargh. (More on them!)

I don't know about this development business. I think about this a lot (I don't have a life).

I keep an eye on Developer, Jdeveloper, Cherokee (which is dead I hear), Visual C++, etc. etc. but I am not great at any of them.

There is just too much for one person to learn and be good at both sides, in my opinion.

If I had a project to handle I would prefer hiring a team of people which is composed of outstanding DBAs and outstanding developers, each good in their own field, rather than hire a bunch of people who can do a little of everything.

When you put specialists together with clear areas of expertise, in a team, you may end up with something greater than the sum of its parts (gestalt).

If you put a bunch of OK generalists together, you will end up with... a workgroup and OK result. Probably.

As a DBA I am more interested in learning about SQL Server, DB2, and others, and in OSes than in doing development.

That's just my personal preference.

Maybe if I was a great developer I could do contracts and drive a Porsche like my NT instructor did, I don't know. Maybe once I am confident I know enough about the foundation my development work would run on...

Regards,
Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)

Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
Technology Services        | Services technologiques
Informatics Branch         | Direction de l'informatique 
Maritimes Region, DFO      | Région des Maritimes, MPO

E-Mail: boivinp_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca <mailto:boivinp_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca>

        -----Original Message-----
        From:   Christopher Spence [SMTP:cspence_at_FuelSpot.com]
        Sent:   Sunday, May 20, 2001 5:45 PM
        To:     Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
        Subject:        RE: recruiters. Aargh. (More on them!)

        As a dba you don't have to do designing and development.  You will
find
        though 2 years is tough. 
        Here is my assessment.

        1-3 years experience     Very tough to find a job but everyone wants
to
        waste your times in interviews
        3-5 years experience     Alot of opportunities but will fall short
for
        "senior" positions
        6+  years of experience  Tons of jobs, alot of them want you for
midlevel
        positions (based on offered salary).

        To be honest, there isn't much difference in salary between a 5 year
dba and
        20 years.
        Once you make 5 year mark, your pretty much home free (I am yet to
hit it as
        I been doing Oracle for 3.5 years, and about 2 of very solid work).
The
        first 5 years are tough in my opinion unless you have something
special
        someone wants.  For me, it has been my dedication and tenacity not
my length
        of service.

        I have talked to alot of DBA's in my short period of time, and I
have
        detirmined one thing, attitude is KEY. 
        You have to have a certain something as there are many things
involved with
        Oracle and in my opinion very few people in comparison to the amount
of
        dba's out there actually put effort into it to become better.  

        Traits I feel are important:

        1.  Hunger, desire to be the best
        2.  Ability to stand your ground with developers
        3.  Ability to bend for developers when the task depends on it
        4.  Ability to stare at a book for hours
        5.  Desire to read things just because you want to 
        6.  Schedule to handle long hours when in a crunch
        7.  Motivation to better yourself when things are slow and
everything is
        working (hardly ever)
        8.  Ability to take critism for everything, it is always a database
problem
        unless proved otherwise.

        Not to go way off topic, but there are jobs out there for 2 year
dba's, but
        your attitude will be the number 1 factor if you can do anything
with them
        after you get your foot in the door.  Your recruiter and your resume
is what
        is the number 1 factor to just get in the door.

        I happen to be better once I am in the door, many people happen to
be better
        at getting in the door.  You have to be able to do both.

        -----Original Message-----
        Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 3:55 PM
        To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


        Hi!..

         Can someone please help me?

         I have worked as oracle Dba for 2 and half years
         and now the recruiters 'complain' that I have
         not done any 'designing or development'.

         Can someone please advise on 'where do I go from here'?

         Thanks

         PS: Oracle is 'useless' in giving such advise, cos
             their 'worldview' starts and ends with OCP.
             which I find recruiters 'barely notice'!!!!!

        ------------- Original Message --------------
        Henry Poras <Henry.Poras_at_ctp.com> wrote:
        To:Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>
        From:Henry Poras <Henry.Poras_at_ctp.com>
        Date:Fri, 18 May 2001 12:06:50 -0800
        Subject:recruiters. Aargh

        Funny story from earlier this week. I've been pestered by a
recruiter making
        cold calls who is trying to get me to hire an Oracle Developer. I
told her
        we had a hiring freeze, but she claimed he walked on water, and we
couldn't
        pass him up. I asked her to fax a resume and told her I would look
at it. Of
        course the resume was nothing special. When I told her "the resume
does not
        warrent us superceeding the hiring freeze" I could almost hear the
lightbulb
        popping above her head as she contemplated the next call to our
switchboard.
        "Warren, is that the name of your manager?" she asked. bye bye.

        Henry




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        Author: Christopher Spence
          INET: cspence_at_FuelSpot.com

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Author: Boivin, Patrice J
  INET: BoivinP_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca

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