RE: OT RE: Async I/O on Windows

From: Richard Ji <richard_at_letsplay.com>
Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 14:03:39 -0800
Message-ID: <F001.002AB3C8.20010205134245@fatcity.com>

1)
 "Just because they didn't do a benchmark, doesn't mean they can't"

 Actually, Oracle submitted a benchmark. Lot's of them. Right now, they FAIL to
 top the list in ANY category.

<SPAN

 class=881014919-05022001>[Richard
 Ji]
<SPAN

 class=881014919-05022001>What I mean here is Oracle hasn't done a benchmark since MS and IBM published their numbers. So do jump to conclusion so fast about who is better.

 2)
 "Benchmarks are expensive, and so Oracle won't repeat them, because Oracle is the best."

 I guess, on this basis, we can cancel the Olympics, the Tour de France, etc. The major networks
 could save BOATS of money by letting them in on this stunning insight. Come to think of it, this would put Alex Trebek, (the host of Jeopardy! ) out of a job. Why keep showing that
 silly show?
<FONT

 face=Arial>[Richard
 Ji]
Actually Major Networks makes tons of money from Olympics, the Tour de France. Why do you think they spend so much money to sign the exclusive right to broadcast it?

 3)
 They don't factor "scientists" [sic] into Price/Performance benchmarks.

 Well....not explicitly, no. Just by WINNING them! Ha! Or did I misunderstand, and your real complaint was that Microsoft has scientists, and Oracle doesn't?[Richard Ji]
<FONT

 face=Arial>You misunderstood what I
 said.

4) "Can you do a benchmark?"

 No; properly done and referred, they cost about six figures. I have found it far more cost-effective to read the results. Of course, having an entirely uninformed opinion is highly cost effective, too.[Richard
 Ji]
<FONT

 face=Arial>
<FONT

 face=Arial>That's fine with me if you found it far more cost-effective to read the
 results. You said: "Oracle is NEVER in the top three. Usually, it doesn't even show up."
 Funny just on the tpc site you referred to, Oracle is all I see in the top three for Non-clustered
 category.

 Best
 Regards
<SPAN

 class=140294121-05022001>
<SPAN

 class=140294121-05022001>Richard Ji
<FONT

 size=2>
<SPAN

 class=881014919-05022001>
<SPAN

 class=881014919-05022001> -----Original Message-----From: Richard Ji
 [mailto:richard_at_letsplay.com]Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 2:30 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: OT RE: Async I/O on Windows

Just because Oracle hasn't done a benchmark doesn't mean Oracle can't out perform SQL-Server or DB2. Benchmark is very expensive to do, Oracle doesn't need to prove to the world every year that it is the best. Oracle has the reputation that MS and IBM don't have. That's why MS and IBM needs to do it. And do you know how many scientists MS had to do that benchmark? I wonder if they factor that into the Price/Performance. Can you (do you) have the same resources in the real world to achive that result? Needless to say performance is not the only thing you measure a DB. How good is SQL-Server when the underlying OS crashes so often? 
 Richard Ji

      <FONT face=Tahoma 
      size=2>-----Original Message-----From: root_at_fatcity.com 
      [mailto:root_at_fatcity.com]On Behalf Of Mohan, RossSent: 
      Monday, February 05, 2001 10:56 AMTo: Multiple recipients of 
      list ORACLE-LSubject: OT RE: Async I/O on 
      Windows
      <FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial 
      size=2>"NT still pants"...LOL!!! 
      <FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial 
      size=2> 
      <SPAN 
      class=176484515-05022001>It must be 
      panting alot, It has BLOWN THE DOORS OFF of "Oracle on Unix" in running 
      
      <FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial 
      size=2>SQLServer on NT, as has DB2. 
      <FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial 
      size=2> 
      <FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial 
      size=2>The general public ( and anyone else ) can wake up and smell the 
      coffee at www.tpc.org.  
      
      <FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial 
      size=2>Check out the <FONT 
      color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2>Top Ten TPC-C marks, by pure performance. 
      
      <FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial 
      size=2> 
      <FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial 
      size=2>Not interested in pure peformance?  Check out the 
      Price/Performance leaders. Oracle doesn't
      <FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial 
      size=2>even SHOW UP in the top ten. What a shocker, eh? It's painful to 
      lose our illusions....
      <FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial 
      size=2> 
      <FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial 
      size=2>Oh, what's that? You don't like TPC-C? It's outmoded or somesuch? 
      Fine, check out ANY
      <FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial 
      size=2>of the TPC benchmarks. Oracle is NEVER in the top three. Usually, 
      it doesn't even show
      <FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial 
      size=2>up. 
      <FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial 
      size=2> 
      <FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial 
      size=2>I mean, I like Oracle, too, but....by the time you turn on the 
      multimode airconditioner, use 
      <FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial 
      size=2>the 12-way adjustable power <SPAN 
      class=176484515-05022001>bucket 
      seats, activate the object-oriented OnStar Satellite 
      <FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial 
      size=2>navigational system, power <SPAN 
      class=176484515-05022001>up the 
      heated side view mirrors and all the other tools, trinkets, 
      
      <FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial 
      size=2>and toys that make it <SPAN 
      class=176484515-05022001>my personal 
      favorite database, there *is* the chance that the 
      <FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial 
      size=2>twenty year old genius mechanic in the <SPAN 
      class=176484515-05022001>the tricked 
      out Nova next to you at the light is going 
      <FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial 
      size=2>to kick your ass when the light <SPAN 
      class=176484515-05022001>turns 
      green.
      <FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial 
      size=2> 
      <FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial 
      size=2>But really, I still love Oracle. Warts and all. 

      <FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial 
      size=2> 
      <FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial 
      size=2>Wanna drag?
      <FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial 
      size=2> 
      <FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial 
      size=2>(heh heh heh)
      <FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial 
      size=2> 
      <FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial 
      size=2> 
      <FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial 
      size=2> 
      <FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial 
      size=2> 
      
        <FONT face="Times New Roman" 
        size=2>-----Original Message-----From: Mark Leith 
        [mailto:mark_at_cool-tools.co.uk]Sent: Saturday, February 03, 
        2001 6:45 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
        ORACLE-LSubject: RE: Async I/O on 
Windows
        <SPAN 
        class=681293710-03022001>I have actually been doing a fair it of reading 
        on this since the topic was brought up, and stand corrected, as earlier 
        mentioned. But I have to say guys that NT is still fairly "pants" when 
        it comes to handling multi threaded processes.. Win2K is a great 
        improvement but M$ still has a lot of work to do on in my view. (only 
        when you compare this against UNIX) 
        <SPAN 
        class=681293710-03022001> 
        <SPAN 
        class=681293710-03022001>Now don't get me wrong, there is enough traffic 
        on this list about this at the moment, so I dont want more bandwith 
        added with this thread if at all possible :)
        <SPAN 
        class=681293710-03022001> 
        <SPAN 
        class=681293710-03022001>Thanks for the reply anyway Yong, I think I 
        will wait for a "good" book on Win2k to come out (unless you know one?) 
        before I go out and buy one (books come out of my pocket as I am a 
        sales person mostly).. NT as far as I am concerned is now in Win2K's 
        shadow, and I think that is the way of the future for Windowze bound 
        people.
        <SPAN 
        class=681293710-03022001> 
        <SPAN 
        class=681293710-03022001>For all out there that have used NT and not 
        Win2K - TRY IT.. Services are handled a LOT better, file management and 
        sharing.. All sorts of new fun stuff to sink your teeth in to.. 
        
        <SPAN 
        class=681293710-03022001> 
        <SPAN 
        class=681293710-03022001>As a side note, for the last line of my first 
        paragraph - I also feel that UNIX cannot be compared in anyway 
        to Windows at this time. Windowze O/S's are designed for pointy 
        clicky people that prefer to look at a nice GUI interface, and generally 
        don't have the indepth technical knowledge that a good UNIX sys admin 
        does.. 
        <SPAN 
        class=681293710-03022001> 
        <SPAN 
        class=681293710-03022001>(If there any NT admins out there don't flame 
        me, I have to deal with it every day of my life...)
        <SPAN 
        class=681293710-03022001> 
        <SPAN 
        class=681293710-03022001>Regards
        <SPAN 
        class=681293710-03022001> 
        <SPAN 
        class=681293710-03022001>Mark
        <SPAN 
        class=681293710-03022001> 
        <SPAN 
        class=681293710-03022001>The views expressed here are soley those coming 
        out of my coffee deprived hungover mind.. They do not express those of 
        my employers, though I'm sure they agree :^)
        
          <FONT face=Tahoma 
          size=2>-----Original Message-----From: root_at_fatcity.com 
          [mailto:root_at_fatcity.com]On Behalf Of Mohan, 
          RossSent: Friday, February 02, 2001 07:00To: 
          Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: Async I/O 
          on Windows
          Oracle on NT runs as 
          ONE PROCESS 
          with 
          MULTIPLE THREADS 
          for performance reasons (no more <FONT 
          size=2>need for shared memory....context switches <FONT 
          size=2>are a LOT less expensive, etc.) 
          -----Original Message----- <FONT 
          size=2>From: yong huang [<A 
          href="mailto:yong321_at_yahoo.com">mailto:yong321_at_yahoo.com] 
          Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 12:51 PM 
          To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
          Subject: Async I/O on Windows 
          Hi, Mark, 
          Async I/O is available on Windows, at least NT. It's 
          not an easy topic. If you think you already 
          know enough about operating systems in general, I suggest you 
          read David Solomon's "Inside WindowsNT". For a lab 
          test, launch Performance Monitor on your NT 
          box and look at the counters for Cache. 
          I'm not sure by "single thread management" whether you 
          mean NT can't have multiple processes or 
          Oracle on NT runs as one thread. The former is obviously 
          wrong. The latter is a design issue inside Oracle 
          Corporation and the question as to why was 
          asked on this forum before without an answer (without an answer 
          I can remember, that is). 
          Yong Huang <FONT 
          size=2>yong321_at_yahoo.com 
          you wrote: 
          Asynch I/O on a Windowze box? supresses a 
          snigger... 
          To the best of my knowledge there are no Windows based 
          system that can take advantage of this, single 
          thread management can be enough a problem <FONT 
          size=2>sometimes.. 
          But, I may be wrong.. List? 
          <FONT 
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          Author: yong huang <FONT 
          size=2>  INET: yong321_at_yahoo.com 
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Received on Mon Feb 05 2001 - 16:03:39 CST