Re: Mixing OO and DB
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 13:10:18 -0400
Message-ID: <47b9bbfe$0$4042$9a566e8b_at_news.aliant.net>
JOG wrote:
> On Feb 18, 2:54 pm, "Brian Selzer" <br..._at_selzer-software.com> wrote:
>
>>"JOG" <j..._at_cs.nott.ac.uk> wrote in message
>>
>>news:9098871a-bd2c-4385-b547-542f38b2055a_at_34g2000hsz.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>>On Feb 15, 2:31 am, David BL <davi..._at_iinet.net.au> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Feb 14, 10:38 pm, JOG <j..._at_cs.nott.ac.uk> wrote:
>>>>[snip]
>>>>
>>>>>On Feb 14, 3:52 am, David BL <davi..._at_iinet.net.au> wrote:
>>>>>"todays lottery numbers: 23, 34, 17"
>>>>>"experimental results: 23, 34, 17"
>>
>>>>>All written down on a bit of paper - same values discussed, but
>>>>>different data. Agree or disagree?
>>
>>>>I agree. Yes, same values but different data
>>
>>>>>I ask this because if we can distinguish data and values, we must then
>>>>>determine /how/ they are different. You state it is by "encoding" but
>>>>>the two lines above are encoded in the same manner as far as I am
>>>>>concerned, so that cannot be the difference between the two concepts.
>>>>>That is unless your "Encodings" equates to my notion of "Facts", and
>>>>>we are thus agreeing loudly, using different definitions of those
>>>>>terms.
>>
>>>>They are the same values and they are encoded in the same manner.
>>>>However they are distinct appearances, hence distinct data.
>>
>>>Ok, so we're agreed at least there. Same values with the same
>>>encoding. Yet the first datum is different to the second. The logic
>>>below therefore follows:
>>
>>>1) The two items of data discussed have the same values and same
>>>encoding.
>>
>>Yes.
>
>
> Hey Brian. That's good - at least there is consensus there.
>
>
>>>2) The two items of data can obviously be distinguished (we are agreed >>>they are not the same data). >> >>No. They are the same data.
>
>
> Ok, that I personally find a strange use of the term. You seem to be
> saying that:
>
> P(a, b)
> Q(a, b)
>
> is the same data? To me that looks like the first line is a different
> datum to the second, even though they share the same values.
> Definitely not in your opinion?
>
>
>>>3) Therefore a datum must possess some attribute outside of its values >>>and encoding. >> >>Yes, but not what you think: A fact is supposed to be true. >> >>Each appearance of a value in a proposition that is supposed to be true is >>data, but each appearance in the same proposition is the same data. >>But isn't it also true that at least some combinations of values, such as those >>combinations of values that appear in a tuple, may also be data?
What complete and utter nonsense! Why, oh why, Jim, do you inflict this on the rest of us?
[snip] Received on Mon Feb 18 2008 - 18:10:18 CET