Re: the two questions

"Brian Selzer" <brian_at_selzer-software.com> wrote in message news:tKd3j.66011$RX.14169_at_newssvr11.news.prodigy.net...
>
> "JOG" <jog_at_cs.nott.ac.uk> wrote in message
> news:0c832d02-88f5-495c-ab2b-8098afcd8818_at_d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> > On Nov 27, 3:49 pm, "Brian Selzer" <br..._at_selzer-software.com> wrote:
> >> "JOG" <j..._at_cs.nott.ac.uk> wrote in message
> >> Each individual that existed, exists, or can exist has a property that
> >> distinguishes it from all other individuals that existed, exist or can
> >> exist; so, yes, there is a property that the caterpillar and butterfly
> >> share.
> >
> > Great, we have agreement :)
> >
> >> The problem is: I don't think haecceity can be observed directly.
> >
> > This time I agree with you (although I did have to look up what
> > 'haeccity' meant) - it is often the case that the identifier we need
> > isn't available to us (I mean we can't often check a butterflies dna
> > right...).
> >
> > But we have to find a solution to this in the real world right - If I
> > have a butterfly, how do I know it came from the caterpillar from
> > earlier? Would you agree there are two options?
> >
> > 1) Check an identifier that we can manage to observe (dna if we're
> > lucky, more likely the jar number we've kept it in, etc.)
> > 2) If we couldn't access that identifier (or it was just too much of a
> > pain to do so), we'd have needed to invent a new identifier as a
> > replacement, that was trackable (a representative identifer for the
> > insect's 'haeccity' - similar to what biologists do when they 'tag'
> > birds).
> >
> > Again, all in the real world, before we get to a database.
> >
>
> There is a third option: continuous observation. If you never take eyes
(or
> the camera) off of the individual, there is no need to reidentify it, and
> therefore no need for a constant identifier.
>
> >> If one were able to examine the history of the butterfly, one should be
> >> able
> >> to determine that it coincides with the history of the caterpillar--up
to
> >> the point of the initial snapshot. The problem is: I don't think
history
> >> can appear in a snapshot.
> >
> > I get your gist here but hope we can come back to it after you've
> > looked at the above question. Regards, J.
> >
>
>

Can you tell identical twins apart by examining their DNA? Does twinning occur among butterflies? Received on Wed Nov 28 2007 - 15:07:25 CET