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Re: Designing database tables for performance?

From: Cimode <>
Date: 28 Feb 2007 00:59:29 -0800
Message-ID: <>

On Feb 28, 12:18 am, "jgar the jorrible" <> wrote:
> On Feb 26, 6:28 pm, Bob Badour <> wrote:
> > joel garry wrote:
> > > On Feb 24, 5:30 am, "Cimode" <> wrote:
> > >>On 23 fév, 22:33, "jgar the jorrible" <> wrote:
> > >>>>In what RAM would be less physical than HD ? For any reason, an
> > >>>>absurdity is an absurdity.
> > >>>Not an absurdity, you just aren't paying attention to how the I/O is
> > >>>counted.
> > >>So you say there are *ways* to count IO's. Fair enough. Question is:
> > >>what has the way of counting IO's has any bearing on the media that
> > >>supports them and therefore qualifies their nature as physical or
> > >>logical? What is the difference: speed?
> > >>Physical IO means that IO have some physical inmemory/hd counterpart
> > >>while logical IO mean *no media* at all as a prerequisite.
> > >>>From Oracle's point of view, if the desired data exists in
> > >>>Oracle's buffers, that is a logical I/O.
> > >>As I said, I am well aware of ORACLE brainwashing over its troops.
> > >>ORACLE succeded to convince the audience of practictionners that RAM
> > >>(call it cache if you want) = logical. One of Larry Ellison
> > >>*contribution* to the field of database technology. Reading and
> > >>educating yourself in RM will help you see the absurdity in that. (See
> > >>rule of indepedence netween logical and physical layer)
> > >>[Snipped Description of process - thanks for the pedagogic intent
> > >>though]
> > >>>Now, you are welcome to think it is better to be more simple than that
> > >>>and just say RAM I/O is the same as HD, but that sounds patently
> > >>>absurd to me. Perhaps you have a better way of distinguishing the
> > >>>semantics?
> > >>It sounds absurd because Larry Ellison has brainwashed people like you
> > >>(no disrespect meant) *not* to think otherwise to boost up his
> > >>products sales and bank account. Read books written by knowledgeable
> > >>audiences about RM and you will see what I am refering to.(was in your
> > >>shoes once long ago;)) A few good books to read that may help...
> > >>
> > > F'n Pascal? "no disrespect?" HAHAHA
> > > When were you in my shoes? Do you realize I was awarded "Go Oracle
> > > user of the month" for standing up to him 15 years ago (when he was
> > > unfairly maligning some poor guy who's management stuck him with some
> > > usual product). Kinda scary that some people still remember that,
> > > though.
> > I find your reply ironic. Do you understand the concepts of
> > conditioning, positive reinforcement and "shaping" ?
> Yeah, I had to go through the basic psychology classes for my
> undergraduate major. Also, I'm married to a Clinical Psychologist who
> teaches and supervises post-docs and lets me know about every slight
> misconception presented in any mass media.
> > I have known Fabian for about 15 years, and I have yet to see him
> > unfairly malign anyone. Although, I have witnessed mob after mob attack him
> Well, I have, and I called him on it. Maybe that's why he stopped
> doing it, if he did stop. Maybe I shared mass hallucinations and it
> was really someone else.
> As for your other post, I can see I didn't make it clear I was
> surprised at the time to get such an award, and surprised anyone else
> would remember it years later. I do wish I could find an archive of
> it (March or April Compuserve, 1992). At the time, I just saw some
> guy browbeating some other guy who didn't deserve it, I didn't know
> Pascal from Admiral Hopper (although I probably should have, given
> that I had been working more than 10 years on R by then - I don't know
> how you got I felt low status about that!). I'd let it go if people
> weren't maintaining he never did that.
> Which leads to the basic flaws in your arguments: You assume that
> there is mutual exclusivity between relational theory and usage of
> admittedly flawed products. You lump me in with "people like...",
> claim that vendors are disparaging R folk while using terms like
> "brainwashing," and insinuate everyone who doesn't agree with you is
> clicker-trained. I suppose now you will complain about
> Hey, the only reason I even participated in this thread was someone x-
> posted to cdos.
> "You would not understand why the US either, because your culture does
> not let you understand. In fact, that is not your fault, but that of
> your culture. That's essentially true of a vast majority of americans
> born and raised in the US (note the distinction; there are exceptions,
> but that's exactly what they are; and you're not one of them)." -
> Fabian not being elitist? OK, what would you call such
> patronization? (and again, I do actually agree with him, just not
> the... whatever you want to call it)
> jg
> --
> is bogus.
> "Therefore, don't hasten to be intimidated agree this thread is off.
> It is very much to the point. Not addressing the real roots of the
> problems is grinding water." - Fabian Pascal
> (Fabian quotes from the first hit on google search for fabian pascal
> united states education. I wouldn't dream of making fun of his
> English, except that a while back he posted some crapola [well, out-of-
> context research attribution] about how good English or the lack
> thereof is an indicator of education, on a site that unfortunately no
> longer exists.)

I would not describe Fabian Pascal as an elitist but as sharp realist observer of evolution of database management in the industry. It's true that his attitude may be misinterpreted as elitism but he certainly is not, I assure you.

Couple years ago as a perfect unknown to him, I had taken contact with him to ask him a couple questions that troubled me for some time. Without any prerequisite or conditions, he has taken the time to bring an answer to some of these questions and encouraged me to educate myself further in the field of data management . Without any obvious immediate interest or being my friend, he has provided not only to me but to numerous others, wise advice as to the real structural issues of data management as opposed to conjonctural issues. In such sense, I owe him a debt of gratitude for the clarity of thought. As a matter of fact, as a database practitionner, I can hear myself on a daily basis think *....this s** of a b*** was right!*...but on the other hand I never thought anything like that about some so called experts but are nothing but empty shells. I guess the best way to describe Fabian Pascal is to call a sharp fallacy-shooter philanthropic data management knowledge worker. His recent year discouragement in the database management practices has been a huge loss to the community... Received on Wed Feb 28 2007 - 02:59:29 CST

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