Re: Proposal: 6NF

From: Hugo Kornelis <hugo_at_perFact.REMOVETHIS.info.INVALID>
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 23:46:04 +0200
Message-ID: <96jdi251552m2rb54f8edjrmhitcld1kni_at_4ax.com>


On Fri, 06 Oct 2006 12:59:15 GMT, David Cressey wrote:

>There is one point I'm confused on: what is the domain of the empty set?
>does it even have a domain? To me, the empty set of character strings is
>not "the same thing" as the empty set of integers. But I may be thinking
>like a computer person and not like a mathematician.

Hi David,

Here are some thoughts from someone who is far from a mathematician and who is more a database practictioner than a database theorist, so take them with whatever amount of salt you see fit.

When I worked with sets during the Dutch equivalent of highschool, I usually had to use a two-part notation. I can't replicate the symbols here and I don't recall all the correct names, but it consisted of a definition of a domain and a listing or formula to define the values. So you could have a set that was defined as a subset of the domain of positive integers consisting of the numbers 2, 4, and 7; but you could also have a set defined as a subset of the domain of real values consisting of the numbers 2, 4, and 7.
Later, after highschool, I started to see a simplified notation for sets that exposes only the values in the set but not the domain.

Are the two sets above equal? I guess that you could defend both answers here - the sets have the same members, but not the same domain definition. I also guess that the notation used can sometimes be an indication of how the answer would be in any give UoD.

For a general answer, I'm tempted to say that there have to be two equality operators for set arithmetic, one looking at the values of the set members only, the other also looking at the domain.

Anyway, whatever you favor as an answer to the question of equality of the two sets above - once you've chosen an answer, the answer to equality of two empty sets logicallly follows.

Best, Hugo Received on Fri Oct 06 2006 - 23:46:04 CEST

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