Re: What databases have taught me

From: Bob Badour <bbadour_at_pei.sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 12:17:32 GMT
Message-ID: <wL5tg.9398$pu3.214465@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca>

topmind wrote:

> Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
>

>>Bob Badour wrote:
>>
>>>topmind wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Tony D wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>topmind wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Tony D wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>without resorting to stuffing
>>>>>>>some more-or-less random test cases through it as some kind of
>>>>>>>demonstration that it kind-of, maybe, perhaps does what we want it to,
>>>>>>>for these semi-random test cases at least ?"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I have kicked around approaches to measure the code impact of various
>>>>>>change scenarios. The problem is that people also perceive change
>>>>>>differently, I've found out, such that they would assign different
>>>>>>frequency estimates, which were required to get a total score.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Exactly. You've "kicked around approaches to measure the code impact of
>>>>>various change scenarios". But without being able to formally reason
>>>>>about behaviour in the abstract, before a piece of code is even
>>>>>written, you're fighting a losing battle, making more-or-less educated
>>>>>guesses.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Again, it is not clear to me what you are proposing. Formal proving is
>>>>not a common industry practice.
>>>
>>>
>>>And your point would be? You seem to be trying to make a claim about
>>>computing science, but you measure that by the properties of industry
>>>practice. Given that many of us think the state of the industry is
>>>appalling and characterized mostly by ignorance, misconception and
>>>anti-intellectualism, you won't convince many of us with that sort of
>>>non sequitur.
>>
>>Bob,
>>
>>"topmind" is our pet crank here on comp.object.

I have been aware of topmind for many years. While I don't always agree with him, he exhibits none of the psychosis common among cranks. Bruno, you, on the other hand, quickly and easily made it into my twit-filter.

  He has a great record of

>>asserting things without being able to back them with anything else than
>>"I don't know why but it is so"

>
> This is bull. The only thing I said that about is why change patterns
> happen a certain way in biz apps. Answering that would probably require
> deep psychological analysis of marketers, lawmakers, and upper
> management. I don't understand their psychology and will readily admit
> that. I can only observe the patterns of changes of mind, not explain
> them. This is what I get for admitting that I don't know everything.
> One of the key aspects of business modeling is that you end up modeling
> personalities of decision makers far more than modeling say laws of
> nature such as chemistry, geometry, etc. The latter would make life a
> lot easier.

Hear! Hear!

> If you know how business and marketing minds work, by all means write a
> fricken book. (Some recommend the Dilbert series, but that only shows
> non-working minds, which may be accurate after all.)

Are they really all that hard to understand? If one can understand the angler fish, I think one can understand the marketing mind.

>>, then challenging the others to prove
>>him wrong, then dismissing answers as either "lab example" (implied :
>>can't work in real life)

>
> Perhaps you have been guilty of using a lab example where it was not
> appropriate and now feal guilty about it?
>
>

>>or "irrelevant to it's own 'niche'" (which is
>>defined as "custom biz apps", whatever this may mean).

>
> So? X being good at domain Y does not automatically mean it will be
> good in domain Z.

Do you mean like something that's passably good at simulation used for everything from dessert toppings to floor wax?

>>FWIW, he admitted
>>believing RM was "a brass-bullet" (while not believing in silver-bullet...)

>
> Is this a sin?

I am not sure what you mean by 'brass-bullet'. But if you mean something very effective that lacks the magical properties necessary for solving all problems without any effort, then I agree. Received on Wed Jul 12 2006 - 07:17:32 CDT