Re: What databases have taught me

From: Kenneth Downs <knode.wants.this_at_see.sigblock>
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 10:51:50 -0400
Message-Id: <>

Frans Bouma wrote:

> Bob Badour wrote:

>> Frans Bouma wrote:
>> > JOG wrote:
>> > 
>> > > Well after a brief hiatus I have just ploughed through the whole
>> > > 800 posts of the OO vs RM thread. Some discouraging stuff indeed.
>> > > Over the last few years a study of database technology, helped
>> > > greatly by discussions in cdt, has educated my opinions
>> > > significantly, and perhaps my albeit slow progress can be
>> > > illuminative to others.
>> > 
>> > Please also realize that in comp.databases*, a lot of people are
>> > die-hard database pundits who preach to implement everything of an
>> > application inside the DB, including BL.
>> I assume BL=business logic. What, exactly, is your objection to using
>> predicate logic for dealing with logic? (Other than ignorance.)
>> Exactly what formalism do you propose that surpasses the predicate
>> calculus for dealing with logic?


> Oh dear, it was crossposted.
> I wasn't talking about predicate calculus, I was talking about a
> complete middle-tier business logic tier. But let's not go there, I
> don't want a discussion about that with people who think everything
> except perhaps the bare-bones gui should be inside an RDBMS system.
> let's agree to disagree on that, we just share different views on that
> topic.

Is there a rational basis for deciding where to put the logic?

If there is, then we are doing each other no favors by agreeing to disagree. In fact if there is a rational basis for making the decision, and a person refuses to engage the conversation, that person is admitting to a bias. That's all still fine, we're human and we have biases, but another admirable human quality is the ability to adjust our bias in the face of facts.

So for instance I started life as a programmer. The first time I faced the decision of where to put logic, I chose code for two reasons. First, code is infinitely flexible so I thought I was preparing for any contigency. Second, and this is very important, I was ignorant of what databases could do.

As I learned more about databases I realized one day that they could deliver what OO could only promise, the two P's of Permanance and Progress. I can keep permanent that which is Good Enough, and I can progress and add new things.

You can only get to this understanding if you know what modern DBMS servers can do and if you thoroughly grasp the role of metadata.

Kenneth Downs
Secure Data Software, Inc.
Received on Fri Jun 23 2006 - 16:51:50 CEST

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