Re: The wisdom of the object mentors (Was: Searching OO Associations with RDBMS Persistence Models)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 22:06:05 GMT
Message-ID: <hrofg.15704$A26.364919_at_ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca>
[Quoted] Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
> Marshall a écrit :
>
>> Joe Van Dyk wrote: >> >>> frebe73_at_gmail.com wrote: >>> >>>> But there are many (enterprise) applications there OOAD is not >>>> suitable. Some OO languages (such as java) has disadvantages because >>>> they don't allow first-order functions and function pointers. >>> >>> I don't know Java, but if your statement about Java disadvantages is >>> true, that's a problem with Java -- not with OO. >> >> It is simple, if not particularly convenient, to use what are >> essentially >> first-order functions and function pointers in Java. However, >> the fact that you have to fake it illustrates why OOP is merely >> a useful point of view that works a lot of the time, as opposed >> to a true foundationally complete approach to programming.
>
> Have mercy, stop confusing Java with OO. I do OO everyday, and could not
> live without HOFs.
[Quoted] Bruno, the fact that some OO has HOFs and some OO does not supports Marshall's observation. Adding a specific powerful feature to a language does not make it foundationally complete.
>> Don't get me wrong; I really like OOP and it's what I use >> when I need to program. But don't mistake its usefulness >> for profundity. OOP has some deep problems, and some >> of its features, like encapsulation and inheritance, will be >> sloughed off when better techinques become widely available.
>
> Dynamic typing + real support for automatic (yet controlable)
> delegation, and you don't need inheritance no more (still can use it -
> as an implementation detail - when it's convenient).
[Quoted] Are you agreeing with Marshall that encapsulation and inheritance are [Quoted] unecessary? Or are you suggesting that one should mistake whatever usefulness one finds in OO for profundity after all?
> wrt/ encapsulation, I'm afraid you're confusing it with data-hiding,
> which is not a necessary pain if you have support for computed attributes.
>
> What about ditching Java in favor of an OO language ?-)
[Quoted] What about ditching an ad-hoc computational model introduced for creating large unpredictable state machines out of small predictable state machines with predicate logic itself? Received on Thu Jun 01 2006 - 00:06:05 CEST