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Re: Conceptual, Logical, and Physical views of data

From: paul c <>
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 00:07:19 GMT
Message-ID: <XE3Ve.471556$s54.119754@pd7tw2no>

Christopher Browne wrote:

> ...

> This is actually a pretty tenable position; when so many SQL
> database vendors don't include the word "relational" in their
> marketing collaterial (or don't include it prominently), it
> becomes evident that "relationalness" doesn't matter all that
> much.
> ... All your other points ring true; this one too. When many of those vendors stopped touting being "relational" which they hardly were in the first place, that was a signal of changing fashions but at least it was one less lie for us to listen to. Not understanding what OO really
means, if it means anything beyond a particular style, I can't guess what new lies have supplanted the old ones.
 > ...
 >      I haven't seen terribly much emerging that would represent a
 >      "beyond relational" theory.  The Darwen and Date "Third
 >      Manifesto" isn't that; it's a call to draw back towards
 >      "relational orthodoxy."
 > ...

 From what I've read, that seems to be their intent. In this over-hyped world, I think D & D showed real guts advocating caution the way they do (even though they don't preclude further advances). Although they aren't implementors, they have planted a stake of a kind that is rare in IT, being so well-grounded compared to all the adhoc products that have so little theory behind them (IT "practices" outside of database have also been eschewing theory for some years.) I suspect that even if TTM doesn't instigate a notable version of "Tutorial D", it will lead to a few take-offs or variations that stick to first principles and advance the field as well. The first places I'd predict this happening would be outside the traditional western business process ideologies and their disrespect for theory. That would probably rule out North America and much of Europe and maybe conventional machinery as well as traditional applications. Too much ignorance, market concentration, power-brokering and pig-headedness in the vested interests of conventional IT. Igorance in government too, as most of the western ones who claim to be so tech-savvy can't see the insidious dumbing-down effects of such software concentration. If it doesn't look Standard Oil's supply and distribution monopolies of a hundred years ago, it can't be a problem. And the western governments wonder at the same time why they are losing their influence.

I know that's a pretty grand indictment, but i just got a new keyboard and couldn't resist.

p Received on Sun Sep 11 2005 - 19:07:19 CDT

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