Uneducated Ego-Puffed Idiot, Ignoramus, Troll
Date: 1 Feb 2005 12:08:15 -0800
Message-ID: <1107288495.508212.151200_at_z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
> Dave Greenwood wrote: "this group is filled with uneducated, ego-puffed idiots ... ignoramus ...trolls ...include ... Neo ... who have nothing meaningful in their lives, with only an axe to grind. Gone are the days when people with a brain contributed to this group. Paul, Bob, Jan, Vadim, Mikito etc. are all quiet, not sure why."
"Is it now object-oriented, hierachical or relational?" "Neo is
probably hedging his bets :)"
"I'm generally in favor of beating OOP hackers about the head and
shoulders regarding the foundation and merits of relational database
theory and practice..." Joshua Stern
"Neo's silly scheme doesn't scale." Joe Foster
"Anyway, I hope this clarifies the issues somewhat. This kind of
back-and-forth gets really old, really fast, because it usually all
boils down to the object camp not understanding where the relational
guys are coming from. We're all very familiar with object-speak because
we are, mostly, programmers. But Neo (for example) repeatedly indicates
that he has no clue about what the hell the R guys are talking about.
(BTW: Don't get too cranky about this, Neo. You're not the first and I
doubt you'll be the last.)..."
"I think for you a review of basic OOP is in order..."
"... but you seem to lack the proper background in (mathematical) logic
that would allow you to even attempt the construction of a proper
argument."
"The big problem is that your description of normalization" Chris Hoess
"Attempting to have a predicate as a variable would be like having a
table definition as a variable - silly! Are you telling me that your
data model is going to represent predicates as variables? You
increasingly sound like you don't know what your on about."
"Neo, as I said earlier, go and do some study!!!! Your data model makes
no sense."
"You have to have a little bit of credentials, in order to be able to
question established science as dogma, before anyone can take you even
remotely seriously. And credentials are only a prerequisite."
"Your model does not synch with reality."
"In the end let me remind you that you are utterly unqualified and
totally out of your league when making any assertion about Computer
Science. Such assertions are not only uncalled for, and denoting a
definite lack of character, but your insistence in promoting your
ignorance is actually a harmful phenomenon."
"Object models have no sound foundation. Object-oriented concepts are a
loose collection of programming techniques well known to good
programmers in the '60s. There is no Object Data Model!"
"Are you really that stupid..."
"You are lying."
"I think you don't know very well what you are talking about."
"It is very clear you have not read enough, or you didn't understand
what you have read."
"You should educate yourself in database theory, because the advantages
of The Relational Model are clear and out of question."
"You need to get a few clues."
"Your OO model doesn't even qualify as a set of ad-hoc rules. You are
pathetically ignorant and willfully so. You are unethical, immoral,
dishonest.", "You are dissembling for the purposes of selling a _at_!*$*!
product.", "You are playing dumb in order to make a spectacular but
false statement to sell your product.", "... you are wasting your time.
Neo combines stupidity and ignorance with free association. The most
polite thing anyone can say about Neo is he is random.", "You might as
well expect the leopard to change his spots.", "You may suggest all you
want, but Neo has proved impervious to suggestion of any kind.",
"Perhaps we can expect him to stop shameless product promotion?", "Neo:
he is a willful ignoramus.", "Neo has never allowed reality to
interfere before. Why would you expect that to change all of a sudden?"
Bob Badour
"OODB has the equivalent of nouns without sentences. It lacks the
expressiveness of a complete DBMS."
"You seem to have a lot of energy. I wish you would divert that energy
to educating yourselves about the fundamentals and to developing a
useful product with a future."
"You're just dreaming. You have no basis for that statement except
blind hope. You must have a sound foundation to build a data model, not
a set of ad-hoc rules."
"Actualy, I have a pretty good overview and the data model of XDb1 is
certainly nothing special.", "I hope you will be very happy in your own
little self-constructed Matrix." Jan Hidders
"In the immortal words of Basil Fawlty, please try to understand before
one of us dies." Ralph Becket
"All due respect Neo, but I can't see anyway in which your model could
work."
"Anyone with even superficial understanding of database fundamentals
will already clearly see that an rdbms would win by a long margin on
both complexity and performance. Any further comparison would simply be
a waste of time."
"We are talking about computer software. I don't understand your
obsession with the way the human brain works. Apparently, you think
that the brain is object-oriented ... that is patent nonsense."
"Mr. Date says that OO has no theoretical foundation."
"The real problem here is that Neo has conflated the concepts of
duplication and redundancy.", "You do not understand redundancy ...",
"You can preach this nonsense till the cows come home, but it will
never be true.", "Please read SOMETHING about functional dependencies
before you post this nonsense again." "[Neo] is really a
psychology/sociology student who is doing a thesis on argument theory,
with his question being, "How long can an argument among several prople
be extended merely be reiterating the same incorrect position?" Another
possibility he is tyrying to port "Monty Python's, "Argument Clinic" to
the web." You are incapable of either understanding it or admitting you
are wrong." Allen
"... plain nonsense." Alfredo Novoa
"You're joking, right? Please tell me you're joking.", "It's bizarre,
to say the least - have you come across a use for this in real business
problems?", "At best, it seems like some sort of thought-sketchpad",
"Normalized down to each symbol? That makes absolutely no sense at
all." Eric Kaun
"I gotta admit that I thought you were joking too", "I'm surprised
[Neo] is willing to post in this forum again since most of us are no
longer willing to listen.." Dawn Wolthuis
"For almost a year now, Neo has been "treating" us to presentations on
how his "experimental database" represents complex data without using
any redundancy or NULLs .. Of course, he's wrong." Laconinc2
"Compare the length and clarity of the SQL with Neo's pseudocode.",
"Why does your model need references? RM doesn't even have references.
Since, as Date argues, references are neither necessary nor sufficient,
I take the presence of references in a model to be a sign of
unnecessary complexity.", "It's not clear to me you know what
normalized means.", "I am curious: does it bother you at all, the
steady stream of database professionals, college professors, etc. who
come through here and try to explain to you that you are
misunderstanding normalization? Do you ever consider the possibility
that, in fact, they might be right and you might be wrong?", "I
consider it telling that all the examples you come up with are
nonsensical.", "If you think otherwise, you don't understand reality.",
"Have you ever had a job that involved data management? Clearly not,
which is why you don't have any examples that make any sense; you have
no experience with the actual domain under discussion.", "howsabout you
come up with a way to solve problems *people actually have* that's
better than what they have now?", "One thing that I've lately added to
my list of things that sets off the bogo-meter is the claim that
something 'works like the brain works.' This is a lovely example of
nonfalsifiability, because no one knows how the brain works.", "I begin
to suspect Neo is a bot." Marshall Spight
"Perhaps because TDM/XDb1 was created by someone who didn't have a firm
grasp on normalisation, or perhaps even reality?", "But it least there
can't be many people around here by now who don't know you are a
charlatan", "Because only an idiot would try to 'normalize' down to
individual letters", "Neo, if C J Date or the late Mr Codd himself
joined the discussion and told you that your understanding of
normalisation is completely warped, would you believe it then?", "This
thread is futile, because Neo is that strange oxymoron, the intelligent
idiot. I mean, it must take some intelligence to come up with this
weird and self-consistent "data model" of his; and yet he completely
fails to grasp the most rudimentary principles of data. Yet Neo's
conceit is that ONLY he trully understands data, and EVERYONE else is
wrong. No matter how many times his errors are pointed out and
explained, he will NOT get it, because he KNOWS he is the only person
who really understands and that we are all wrong, so he will not
listen." Tony.
"You simply continue to misunderstand the concept of redundancy." Larry
Coon.
"Obviously, your knowledge of theological literature is only marginally
better than your knowledge about relational theory." Hugo Kornelis.
"If this hint is not detailed enough for you, may I suggest for you to
learn how to represent tree in the relational database instead of
broadcasting nonsence about generic ...", "Neo's school science fair
project", "Until competitors take your stuff seriously you have little
to worry about. And everybody on this group would guarantee you that
would never happen." "How about 'Db for Idiots created by Dummies'",
"Every established scientific discipline has cranks. Before, I was
surprised database theory didn't appear to have any.", "You really want
that chair of the chief crackpot on cdt, don't you?" Mikito Harakiri
"XDb2: the DBMS for the demented and insane", "It was peaceful until
you came back. The rock you crawled out from under misses you. Go
back." Gene Wirchenko
"I wonder, would it help to stem the tide if the more experienced
practitioners here would just posit a real-world problem to be solved
(rather than cats and dogs, parent-child, etc.) Given an interesting
enough problem, that may take quite a while to address, if it can be
addressed at all with Neo's stuff." Nick Landsberg
"You are 30 years late. Relational is declarative." Leandro
"As for Neo, maybe he has something there, maybe not, but I think
basically there's a communication barrier where his complicated
examples leave everyone without a clue what he's going on about." Paul
"As I say Neo, you need to go do some study. You don't even have a
basic understanding of the fundamentals of data representation. My
advice would be to go study hard the relational model, if you think you
can improve on data modelling from there then great, we'll all be
looking forward to your improvement on Bertrand Russells set theory and
predicate logic... (whats' more you'll go down in history as having
overthrown one of the most fundamental dogmas in logic of the 20th
century.)..."
Received on Tue Feb 01 2005 - 21:08:15 CET