Re: In an RDBMS, what does "Data" mean?

From: Eric Kaun <ekaun_at_yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 14:46:29 GMT
Message-ID: <9X%vc.5730$tB.3511_at_newssvr32.news.prodigy.com>


"Anthony W. Youngman" <wol_at_thewolery.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:FhLmDnFZR7vAFwQU_at_thewolery.demon.co.uk...
> >Which axioms don't match? I wasn't really aware there were axioms per se.
>
> BLOODY HELL ...
>
> I don't mean to sound stunned, but this takes the biscuit ...
>
> ALL mathematical theories are based on axioms.
>
> Science is basically the search for experimental proof that the axioms
> correctly describe the real world.
>
> If you can't describe relational theory in terms of axioms and logical
> deductions, then it isn't maths and can't be science!
>
> An axiom is basically "any statement which the model ASSUMES to be
> true". In relational theory, I would guess that at least one axiom could
> be phrased as "data comes in tuples".

That's hardly an axiom that I would recognize, since while "tuple" is defined in terms of other more basic terms (axioms?), "data" is hardly well-defined. And what does "comes in" mean?

I believe the axioms of set theory and predicate calculus apply (those in set theory limited somewhat, to sets of tuples perhaps), but don't claim to know formally what those are.

> So, if you don't have experiments to show that real-world data ALSO
> comes in tuples (or a close approximation thereof), then you can't
> conclude that a relational database is a good place to store real-world
> data.

Sure you can; evidence <> proof. The nice work logicians and mathematicians have done with predicate calculus over the years, while perhaps not corresponding to "the real world" (tm, MTV Networks), gives us nice machinery with which to manipulate... well, data. What, precisely, would allow you to conclude that a <datamodel> database is a "good place" to store real-world data?

> Sorry for ignoring the rest of your post, but this is ABSOLUTELY
> FUNDAMENTAL!!!
Perhaps, but I still don't think "data comes in tuples" is anything like an axiom. I could certainly be wrong.

  • erk
Received on Fri Jun 04 2004 - 16:46:29 CEST

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